0001 1 2 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 3 4 BINGO ADVISORY COMMITTEE 5 MEETING 6 7 JANUARY 26, 2005 8 9 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 BE IT REMEMBERED that the BINGO ADVISORY 18 COMMITTEE meeting was held on the 26th of JANUARY 2005, 19 from 10:00 a.m. to 12:30 p.m., before David Bateman, 20 RPR, CSR in and for the State of Texas, reported by 21 machine shorthand, at the Offices of the Texas Lottery 22 Commission, 611 East 6th Street, Austin, Texas 78701, 23 whereupon the following proceedings were had: 24 25 0002 1 APPEARANCES 2 3 Chairman: 4 Ms. Suzanne Taylor - Corpus Christi, Texas 5 6 Committee Members: 7 Mr. Daniel Moore - Houston, Texas 8 Mr. Larry Whittington - Dallas, Texas 9 Ms. Kimberly Rogers - San Antonio, Texas 10 Mr. Mario Manio - Garland, Texas 11 Mr. Pete Pavlovsky - Rosenberg, Texas 12 13 Charitable Bingo Operations Director: 14 Mr. Billy Atkins 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0003 1 INDEX 2 3 APPEARANCES..................................... 2 4 5 AGENDA ITEMS 6 Item Number 1................................... 5 BAC will call meeting to order 7 Item Number 2................................... 5 8 Consideration of and possible action, including approval, on the minutes of the 9 August 11, 2004, November 17, 2004 and December 20, 2004 BAC meetings 10 Item Number 3................................... 6 Report and possible discussion on the 11 79th Legislature Item Number 4................................... 11 12 Report and possible discussion on alternative styles of bingo games and/or Internet gaming 13 Item Number 5................................... 39 Report and possible discussion on review of 14 the operations manual Item Number 6................................... 41 15 Report, possible discussion on nominations for BAC vacancies 16 Item Number 7................................... 43 Report and possible discussion on two new 17 draft rules regarding standard penalty guidelines and expedited administrative 18 penalty guidelines Item Number 8................................... 54 19 Consideration of and possible discussion and/or action on the BAC and Texas Lottery Commission 20 December 20, 2004 meetings Item Number 9................................... 93 21 Appointment of a work group to develop recommendations relating to the BAC Annual 22 Report and recommendations to the Texas Lottery Commission relating to the 2005 BAC 23 work plan Item Number 10.................................. 104 24 Public comment 25 0004 1 INDEX 2 Item Number 11.................................. 120 3 Consideration of and possible action on future BAC meeting dates and/or items to be considered 4 For future meetings Item Number 12.................................. 128 5 Adjournment 6 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE.......................... 130 7 8 9 ******* 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0005 1 JANUARY 26, 2005 2 Bingo Advisory Committee 3 AGENDA ITEM NO. 1 4 CHAIR TAYLOR: It's 10 o'clock. We do 5 have a quorum, so we'd like to call this meeting to 6 order. 7 I'd like to thank Commissioner Cox -- 8 Commissioner Clowe for being here. We do appreciate 9 him coming to our meetings. And I'd like to thank 10 those of you who made it here. Hopefully, some more 11 people will wander in later. 12 AGENDA ITEM NO. 2 13 CHAIR TAYLOR: The first item on our 14 agenda is to call the meeting to order. The second 15 item is consideration of and possible action, including 16 approval, on the minutes of August 11th, 2004, November 17 17th, 2004 and December 20th, 2004 Bingo Advisory 18 Committee meeting. 19 Do we want to do these all at once or do 20 you want to do them individually? 21 MS. ROGERS: All at once. 22 CHAIR TAYLOR: Okay. We're going to 23 consider these all at once. Were there any changes to 24 any of these minutes? 25 Is there a motion to approve those as 0006 1 posted on-line? 2 MS. ROGERS: I motion to approve. 3 MR. MANIO: I second the motion. 4 CHAIR TAYLOR: All in favor? 5 (Committee so indicates) 6 CHAIR TAYLOR: That carries. 7 AGENDA ITEM NO. 3 8 CHAIR TAYLOR: Item number three, report 9 and possible discussion on the 79th Legislature. Good 10 morning, Nelda. 11 MS. TREVINO: Good morning, Madame 12 Chairman and members of the Bingo Advisory Committee. 13 For the record, I'm Nelda Trevino. I'm the director of 14 governmental affairs here at the commission. 15 And along with myself, other members of 16 the governmental affairs staff that I'd like you to be 17 familiar with include Melissa Villasenor, Colin Haza 18 and Felicia Harris. 19 I'm looking forward to providing you 20 regular legislative updates that -- that take place at 21 your meetings that may occur during this legislative 22 session. And additionally, consistent with our past 23 practices, we will provide you with a comprehensive end 24 of session report at the end of the legislative 25 session. 0007 1 As I know most of you are aware, the 79th 2 Legislature convened its regular session on January the 3 11th at 12 noon. And the last day of the regular 4 session will be May 30th, 2005. 5 For your reference, included in your 6 meeting material are some legislative dates of interest 7 that we wanted to bring to your attention. Also in 8 your meeting material is a legislative tracking report 9 prepared for your meeting today. 10 And as of this date, the agency Sunset 11 Bill has not been filed and there have been no bills 12 filed that directly impact the administration or 13 operation of charitable bingo. 14 However, there are two bills noted on 15 your tracking report that I would like to mention to 16 you today, the first one, House Bill 118 by 17 Representative Yvonne Davis, relating to the repeal of 18 certain tax exemptions and deductions. One of the 19 repeals would eliminate the exemption of the sales tax 20 on bingo equipment. And as I know you're aware, the 21 exemption was provided in House Bill 2519 from the last 22 regular session. 23 Also on your tracking report is House 24 Bill 175 by Representative Warren Chisum relating to 25 allowing a lodge or other local organization affiliated 0008 1 with a grand lodge or similar charitable or benevolent 2 institution or older incorporated under state law to 3 hold a charitable raffle. 4 That's a lot of words in the caption of 5 the bill. But, basically, this bill amends the 6 Charitable Raffle Act and it appears to be intended to 7 expand the type of organizations authorized to conduct 8 charitable raffles. 9 Not included on your tracking report is 10 another bill related to the Charitable Raffle Act, 11 House Bill 541 by Representative Mike Krusee. And that 12 bill was just filed this past Monday on January the 13 24th. And this bill relates to the types of nonprofit 14 organizations that also may conduct charitable raffles. 15 And the bill deletes the requirement that an 16 organization have an elected governing body or 17 officers. 18 I also want to report, as with all state 19 agencies, the commission will make appearances before 20 the Senate Finance Committee and the House 21 Appropriations Committee regarding the agency's 22 appropriations and budget for the upcoming biennium for 23 fiscal years 2006 and 2007. 24 The Speaker of the House has announced 25 that house committee assignments will be made tomorrow, 0009 1 January the 27th. And the house rules adopted by the 2 House indicate the Committee on Licensing and 3 Administrative Procedures will continue to have 4 jurisdiction on matters pertaining to gaming industries 5 and jurisdictions over numerous agencies, including the 6 Texas Lottery Commission. 7 The lieutenant governor has announced 8 that senate committee assignments will be made either 9 today or tomorrow. While the senate rules do not 10 specify committee jurisdiction of state agencies, 11 legislation related to this agency has historically 12 gone before the Senate State Affairs Committee. 13 Ultimately, though, it is the lieutenant 14 governor and the Speaker of the House that determine 15 where legislation is referred and to what committees 16 may hear a piece of legislation. 17 For your information, I provided to you 18 this morning a copy of a report issued by the House 19 Research Organization titled "Topics for the 79th 20 Legislature." I would like to bring to your attention 21 the section on page nine. That's a section related to 22 gambling. And as you will note under this section, 23 there are several items related to charitable bingo 24 that are noted in the report. 25 Also for the record, the House Committee 0010 1 on Licensing and Administrative Procedures issued its 2 interim committee report. It is my understanding that 3 copies of the committee's recommendations as it relates 4 to the interim charge specifically related to 5 charitable bingo and the implementation of House Bill 6 2519 were previously provided to you back in December, 7 as well as copies being provided at the joint 8 commission and BAC meeting. 9 While agency staff is going to make every 10 effort to keep you informed during this legislative 11 session, I would like to encourage you to visit several 12 Web sites for up-to-date information and current 13 information regarding committee hearings or bills that 14 are filed. 15 And these Web sites are as follows: 16 www.capital.state.tx.us and then a Web site specific 17 for the House of Representatives is 18 www.house.state.tx.us and then a Web site specific for 19 the senate is www.senate.state.tx.us. 20 This concludes my report and I'll be 21 happy to answer any questions that you may have. 22 Questions? 23 CHAIR TAYLOR: I guess not. 24 MS. TREVINO: All right. Thank you very 25 much. 0011 1 CHAIR TAYLOR: Thank you. 2 Does committee -- any committee member 3 wish to speak on this? 4 And the general public? 5 AGENDA ITEM NO. 4 6 CHAIR TAYLOR: Okay. Then moving on to 7 item number four, report and possible discussion on 8 alternative styles of bingo games and/or internet 9 gaming, that's Danny Moore. 10 MR. MOORE: Good morning. This work 11 group met on December 8th. The members are myself, 12 Billy Atkins, Steve Bresnen, Stephen Fenoglio, Suzanne 13 Taylor and Jamie McNally, who's an attorney. 14 The goal of the subcommittee is to 15 introduce and discuss various topics dealing with 16 alternative styles of bingo being introduced to other 17 states across the country. 18 We basically -- we just talked about -- 19 we actually made a list of different games being played 20 in other jurisdictions. 21 We mention, obviously, instant bingo 22 cardminders, which right now we're putting together 23 legislation here -- actually, there's a group of 24 distributors, lessors and we've got lobbyists hired and 25 it's just one of the things that we're doing here in 0012 1 this state. 2 We talked about satellite and link bingo. 3 And that's been done in a couple other states. 4 Washington state has played it up there. There's a 5 couple other jurisdictions looking at it right now. 6 Progressive bingo -- I'm just going to 7 run through these and then we can go back maybe through 8 them: selling pull-tabs in alternative locations, 9 which would be, for instance, a barroom or restaurant, 10 a club; off track betting within the bingo halls; 11 selling Texas Lottery Commission products within a 12 bingo hall; poker games conducted in bingo halls; keno 13 games played within the bingo halls; also to improve 14 raffles, to make them more profitable; the possibility 15 of raising our payouts in the state; and we also talked 16 about Internet gaming and how it affects bingo halls. 17 And we asked -- Mario, were you on the 18 group, too? 19 MR. MANIO: No. 20 MR. MOORE: No? Okay. I know Suzanne 21 was asked specifically to comment if any bingo players 22 actually do that she knows of in her bingo hall. And 23 she wasn't really -- you might want to answer that. 24 CHAIR TAYLOR: My bingo hall has -- it's 25 a very rural population. And in my hall, I don't think 0013 1 so. I don't hear people talk about playing bingo on 2 the Internet. But once again, I've got -- I've got 3 people from the outskirts of the community and from 4 really small towns, you know, of 2,000 population or 5 less. 6 So because it doesn't affect my hall 7 doesn't mean it's not affecting somebody's hall that's 8 in a different area with a different type of player. 9 MR. MOORE: Our conclusion was that we 10 didn't really have enough information, as far as 11 Internet gaming. I know that Commissioner Cox, I 12 think, has asked us a few times to look into this. 13 It's not as easy a project as it might seem. 14 There's probably about seven or eight Web 15 sites, I think, that you can actually go into and play 16 bingo. Some of them are not profit. Some of them are 17 just for fun. Some are. 18 But as far as Texas go, I believe the law 19 doesn't allow us to do that. But there's really -- 20 it's a -- it's a federal issue and they really haven't 21 figured it out yet how to, I guess, enforce it or stop 22 it or whatever. So it's something we're going to have 23 to continue to look at. 24 Some of these other items -- Billy, I 25 believe you brought up poker games conducted in bingo 0014 1 halls. And were they doing it in Michigan or they're 2 considering the possibility? 3 MR. ATKINS: I don't recall -- I believe 4 it was Michigan that has legislation pending currently 5 to allow for the conduct of charity poker tournaments. 6 And there are a number of other states who, even if 7 they don't have pending legislation, are grappling with 8 the issue because it is something, I guess, of a 9 growing phenomenon that's been spurred by a lot of the 10 television programs dealing with poker tournaments that 11 organizations are sponsoring these nonprofit or what 12 are being billed as nonprofit poker tournaments. 13 But there's no real oversight of them. 14 So organizations with strong charitable gaming 15 traditions are looking at legislation that would 16 formalize that process, similar to like it is with 17 bingo so that you have a set of ground rules for the 18 conduct of the game, that the organizations conducting 19 the game are eligible, and that an appropriate amount 20 of proceeds go to the charitable purposes. 21 MR. MOORE: Okay. Yeah, I don't think we 22 can discount how big that's become. Texas Hold 'Em 23 poker is rampant right now, as far as I can tell. I 24 don't know if anybody else has noticed that in their 25 areas. But it's definitely, I think, affecting the 0015 1 bingo market right now in Texas. 2 MR. ATKINS: One thing that the committee 3 was discussing as it was going through this process was 4 taking into consideration the physical properties that 5 are available to the organizations conducting bingo 6 that are being underutilized. 7 Specifically, you have a bingo hall that, 8 say, is only used for bingo maybe four, on the high 9 end, five hours of the day. The rest of the time it's 10 being sat vacant. 11 So a lot of these are being considered in 12 conjunction with what I think an argument can be made 13 as being traditional bingo games just in a variation of 14 the format, whether it's progressive bingo game, linked 15 bingo game, etcetera. 16 I think that the work group was looking 17 at other types of activities that could occur in the 18 hall by authorized organizations maybe outside the time 19 frame of the bingo game. And so that's where the idea 20 of the charity poker tournament came in. 21 The restructuring of the pull-tab sales, 22 I thought Danny, that we also discussed not just at 23 different locations but expanding the times that those 24 could be sold at bingo halls. 25 And then we talked about just the other 0016 1 activities that go on that would be conducive possibly 2 to bingo hall facility. One game that the lottery 3 considers is a keno game. While it's a lottery game, 4 it's conducted in such a manner that it could be 5 conducive to a bingo hall setting. That's where we got 6 to just the other discussion of the sale of bingo 7 products. 8 I think Larry was -- was in that work 9 group. And Larry mentioned the fact that he has 10 players at every occasion that leave his hall to go buy 11 lottery products in between sessions. So his thinking 12 is, if they're going to be doing it anyway, the 13 organization should just have an opportunity to get a 14 piece of that pie, anyway. 15 And then also the discussion of the off 16 track betting was just something that came up, again, 17 given the fact that there is a facility that could be 18 conducive to that. And I hadn't followed up with you, 19 Danny. But I had the opportunity to visit one of the 20 tribal casinos in Oklahoma. 21 And in wandering around it, I found off 22 in the corner an off track betting corner. And it 23 wasn't very big, but it was pretty busy. 24 MR. MOORE: That's interesting. 25 MR. ATKINS: So, you know, the -- the 0017 1 committee -- the work group was, I think, consistent 2 with its charge in terms of looking at, again, what 3 I'll call variations of traditional bingo games -- 4 progressive, etcetera -- looking at new technology such 5 as the instant bingo cardminders, looking at other 6 avenues of gaming with an emphasis on charitable 7 gaming, whether it's raffles, charity poker 8 tournaments, that would be conducive to the bingo hall 9 environment and then just other methodologies to 10 utilize the physical properties of the bingo hall and 11 with a final emphasis, like Danny said, on Internet 12 gaming. 13 Although we do have, you know, difficulty 14 finding quantifiable reliable evidence or information 15 on Internet gaming and its potential impact on 16 charitable bingo. 17 MR. WHITTINGTON: Most of the time when 18 you're dealing with people that -- that's on the 19 Internet or doing anything with the Internet, you can 20 play it two ways. You can go real or you can go for 21 fun. 22 A lot of these people are putting their 23 credit cards up and going for real. And you're not 24 going to get those people to come up and say, "Hey, 25 Danny. Guess what? I'm gambling on the Internet." 0018 1 I don't care what kind of customer you 2 have in your bingo hall. That's kind of like a hidden 3 secret. They're going to keep it to themselves. 4 They're not going to divulge that information to you at 5 all. 6 They're going -- they're going to just 7 hold back because that's basically almost illegal, 8 really. They're not going to put their self in an 9 illegal type of situation. 10 MR. MOORE: Sure. 11 MR. WHITTINGTON: So you ain't going to 12 find anything out from these bingo players if they're 13 playing poker or whatever on the Internet for real 14 money. But I know in my hall there's about 50 percent 15 of them are because I hear them talking about it. 16 But that goes and said, again, we got to 17 make sure we deal with time, that the playing time of 18 the bingo session is very important for us not to have 19 a certain stipulation on the time. We need more time 20 to do what we need to do, because people want more than 21 bingo these days. 22 We have created a monster and they want 23 to do more than just play bingo. And that's -- that's 24 the point we need to get to, go on to something else. 25 MR. MOORE: I'm glad you brought it up, 0019 1 Billy, and Larry. I think the expansion of times if -- 2 you know, if we were able to allow for a video pull-tab 3 type machine, I think limiting the time playing it 4 wouldn't be beneficial to the whole idea of increasing 5 the revenues in the hall. 6 So I think that needs to be looked at, 7 also. Anything else? 8 MR. PAVLOVSKY: Yeah. I've got a 9 question about -- about the selling pull-tabs in 10 alternate locations. How is that going to benefit the 11 bingo halls and the charities? 12 I can understand how it's going to 13 benefit the people who provide all this stuff. 14 MR. MOORE: Well, actually, in the two 15 states that I think allow it, Washington state and 16 Minnesota, a charity group would actually be 17 represented and would receive the proceeds from that 18 and maybe pay a part of that -- part of the space they 19 rent, whether its a booth. 20 Actually, they could have -- like the 21 bartender in the place actually can sell the tabs. 22 They might pay him a commission or some kind of rent on 23 the space they use. But all the profit from the 24 pull-tab box would go to the charity. 25 So, obviously, that type of clientele in 0020 1 that environment would probably spend a little more 2 money on them, Pete. 3 MR. PAVLOVSKY: You never know. 4 MR. WHITTINGTON: But would that be 5 considered as playing a bingo session by doing this by 6 the charity in a club, etcetera? 7 MR. ATKINS: It would during the current 8 statute. 9 MR. WHITTINGTON: Yes. That's what I'm 10 saying. 11 MR. ATKINS: Yeah. So that's -- that's 12 -- that's one of the considerations that would have to 13 be kept in mind if anything like that went forward. 14 MR. WHITTINGTON: Because I would love to 15 have those tickets in my bingo hall, because that's 16 going to increase everything else. If I'm going to 17 have a draw like that, I would just say, hey, I'd like 18 to set it up in the bingo hall or club or something to 19 have more time, because I'm paying for electricity 20 every day in the week. 21 My light stays on 24 hours a day, so why 22 not utilize that time in my own hall and just have 23 strictly pull-tab sales all day long. 24 MR. MOORE: Yeah. I mean, Larry, there's 25 a lot of things that have to be considered, maybe 0021 1 allowing charities to play more often. You know, 2 there's -- there's a lot more to this than meets the 3 eye, obviously. 4 MR. WHITTINGTON: Oh, yeah. 5 MR. ATKINS: But I think that one of 6 the -- one of the key findings of the work group is 7 that this is a much bigger issue that requires, you 8 know, really careful consideration. 9 Because just like you're saying, Larry, 10 there are going to be a lot of divergent opinions on 11 it. 12 And another item that I'd like to bring 13 up specifically for the workbook's consideration -- the 14 work group's consideration, given the fact that we're 15 in a legislative session and things are going to be 16 moving fast and furious, there are going to be 17 organizations contacting staff. We've already had one 18 contacting staff wanting to come in and provide a 19 demonstration on a new product for staff. 20 So Danny, we're going to look to you to 21 work with us on, you know, developing some kind of 22 methodology to at least keep the work group, you know, 23 apprised of that. 24 MR. MOORE: Okay. I think that's 25 important. 0022 1 MR. ATKINS: I don't know if we'll be 2 able to on -- you know, on every occasion get the 3 entire work group together. But I think, in any event, 4 the work group needs to know about these products and 5 the demonstrations. 6 MR. MOORE: Sure. I agree. 7 Yeah, I think -- I mean, everything's 8 always changing out there. I -- I was talking to -- 9 I've been calling a couple other states. And 10 progressive pull-tabs, which I think some people might 11 know, it's similar to progressive bingo. 12 And Minnesota's just getting that and I 13 think Louisiana just passed some laws to allow for 14 them. And talking to distributors in both states, I've 15 gotten opposite feedback. Minnesota, they were all 16 fired up about it. They thought it would be a big 17 boost to their pull-tab sales. 18 And then Louisiana, they're not as 19 excited. I don't know if it's because the way the 20 legislation, the rules were written. But I haven't 21 really read through it yet to see why the opposite ends 22 of the spectrum on getting answers on that. 23 It seems like it would be a nice thing. 24 But I think it has something to do with the type of 25 payouts and things like that. So I'm going to try to 0023 1 look into that, too. 2 MR. PAVLOVSKY: That's progressive bingo? 3 MR. MOORE: Pull-tabs, which would allow 4 the pot to grow and these people can come back and -- 5 with their tickets. And I think some of it's -- from 6 an auditing standpoint, it might be a problem. 7 I think Louisiana, they have to 8 actually -- the charity has to have a separate account 9 that they keep track of that progressive game. And 10 right now we only allow our charities to, I think, have 11 the one bingo account. 12 So I'll keep checking that out, too. So 13 that's about all I have today on this. But I'd be 14 happy to come up -- if anybody's planning on meeting 15 with you, Billy, or whatever. I'll get the group 16 together if I can. 17 MR. ATKINS: Okay. 18 MR. MOORE: All right? 19 MR. ATKINS: All right. 20 MR. WHITTINGTON: Billy, I'd like to ask 21 you a question. What is the purpose of a charity only 22 playing a certain amount of times per week? I mean... 23 MR. ATKINS: I'm sorry. I didn't hear 24 the first part. 25 MR. WHITTINGTON: What is the purpose of 0024 1 the charities only playing like two or three times a 2 week and a certain amount of time where we can play and 3 that's it, that's all we can play is like two times, 4 three times? 5 Why -- how come they can't play more than 6 one or two times or three times? 7 MR. ATKINS: I think the common policy 8 reason for that from jurisdiction to jurisdiction is 9 that conduct of charitable bingo is not meant to be a 10 full-time business enterprise of these charitable 11 organizations. 12 It's meant to be a limited auxiliary 13 fund-raising activity. 14 MR. WHITTINGTON: Okay. 15 MR. ATKINS: So time limits on conduct of 16 bingo games are really pretty common from jurisdiction 17 to jurisdiction, although there's a lot of variation as 18 to, you know, how they're set up. 19 You know, some jurisdiction may say 20 something like an organization can conduct bingo eight 21 hours a week and that's it. And it's up to the 22 organization to decide, you know, when it's going to 23 play for how long as long as it doesn't exceed eight 24 hours. 25 MR. WHITTINGTON: Right. 0025 1 MR. ATKINS: You know, other 2 jurisdictions will have limitations similar to Texas 3 where it will limit the number of days and the number 4 of hours. 5 But my understanding is that's, you know, 6 traditionally been the policy reason for limiting the 7 time that those games can be conducted. 8 MR. WHITTINGTON: I just feel that the 9 way bingo is going now and the way charities are 10 dropping out because not enough funds are being raised 11 and, of course, to get a charity, you got to make -- 12 you got to have some kind of way to accumulate money. 13 And the money's not there and we're 14 losing a lot of charities. And if I'm playing five 15 times, seven times a week and I got five charities and 16 all of a sudden I lose one and all the special sessions 17 are gone, now I've got to close a day because I don't 18 have another charity ready to go. 19 And I just feel that four times a week is 20 a good number -- I know it's a legislative issue we 21 need to bring up. But I just feel that we really need 22 to increase these charities, as far as playing time per 23 week. 24 I mean, I think it would really help a 25 lot because two years ago we were at 19 hundred. Now 0026 1 we have 17 hundred. So we're losing charities and 2 these halls are suffering -- closing a day because, 3 when you close a day of business, that weakens your 4 bingo hall. 5 MR. ATKINS: I don't think we have 17 6 hundred charities. 7 MR. WHITTINGTON: I thought it was 17 8 something. 9 MR. ATKINS: 14? 10 MR. SANDERSON: 13. 11 MR. ATKINS: 13? 12 MR. WHITTINGTON: I know at one time it 13 was 17, two or three years ago. 14 MR. ATKINS: Well, you know, something -- 15 I don't know, Larry, that I agree that it's safe to say 16 just if -- if you play more bingo they will come. I 17 don't know if that in and of itself is an answer. 18 You know, we've heard people comment in 19 the past that there is an underutilized amount of 20 occasions currently available for the conduct of bingo. 21 I think that's just one element that has to be kept in 22 mind with the rest of the game and, you know, finding 23 ways to make the game in and of itself more attractive. 24 MR. WHITTINGTON: Yes, I understand that. 25 I'm just talking about on the charity part of the 0027 1 amount of sessions that's being played. And if you 2 don't have any sessions left or you happen to lose a 3 charity, you basically have to close a day or two. 4 That's just the way the law is. And when 5 you close a day or two, I just think it just weakens a 6 hall when we're trying to get another charity in and to 7 open back up to -- to accommodate those games and try 8 to pick back up and stuff where you left off from. 9 And I just feel that two to three times a 10 week is -- I don't understand it. I mean, I know it's 11 there. And if there's any kind of way we can change 12 that -- I don't care if it's four times. It would be 13 better than three. 14 At least that would allow somebody to 15 stay open if they're open seven days a week instead of 16 three days a week, a commercial hall I'm talking about, 17 because we have faced that a couple of times this year. 18 For some reason, we lost two charities 19 because they went to a charter school. It was charity 20 at first but they became charters, so we lost two 21 charities just like that. 22 And we basically closed down a day to 23 accommodate those four charities we had because we 24 didn't have no more special sessions left. And that's 25 why I'm bringing it up. 0028 1 CHAIR TAYLOR: I think the reason that a 2 lot of halls have more charities than they -- there's a 3 lot of halls that have six and seven charities in the 4 hall. And the reason they do that is so that, if 5 somebody leaves, they just fill it on in. They become 6 three sessions instead of two sessions. 7 So I really think that we have the 8 opportunity already to do that. Expanding the hours of 9 play, I think, is what's important. 10 MR. WHITTINGTON: Yes. 11 CHAIR TAYLOR: If we get IBCs approved 12 and some of the other innovative things, expanding the 13 hours of play is going to make a huge difference to the 14 profit margin the charities are going to have. 15 But right now, I mean, we already have 16 that opportunity to have more charities. You can put 17 seven charities in your hall, Larry. And you can have 18 two of them leave and it's not going to be a problem 19 because five charities can carry the third sessions. 20 MR. WHITTINGTON: Yes, I understand. 21 CHAIR TAYLOR: So I don't think having 22 them four times a week is going to do anything. 23 Because if one leaves and even if -- if you have a 24 minimum number of charities in the hall and one leaves, 25 you're going to be back in the same situation. 0029 1 But expanding the hours of play, that's 2 where we need to be looking. 3 MR. WHITTINGTON: Oh, yeah. Of course -- 4 CHAIR TAYLOR: With IBCs, the possibility 5 is on the horizon of that. That could be a huge 6 tremendous money maker. And like you say, where -- the 7 halls there are open -- you know, I pay rent seven days 8 a week to the building. And the electricity is on and 9 everything is running. 10 So to expand the number of hours, all it 11 does is make more money for all of the charities. 12 MR. WHITTINGTON: Well, no. I mean, it's 13 just that you can't just go out and say, okay, you're a 14 charity, come in. It costs money. I mean, if you got 15 that money for them charities to do that -- 16 CHAIR TAYLOR: No. 17 MR. WHITTINGTON: We don't. 18 CHAIR TAYLOR: No. My -- the charities I 19 get normally start off playing one session a week. 20 That's what they can afford to get a license for. 21 Was there any other comment on this 22 subject? Could I get your witness affirmation form, 23 please? 24 MR. HEINLEIN: I thought you might ask 25 for that. David Heinlein representing the charities. 0030 1 I just want to say amen to what Suzanne just said, is 2 that with the possibilities of many of the charities 3 being able to expand their sales of instant bingo 4 through the IBC, that would be a good lot more time to 5 do that. 6 But in those cases where we already are 7 doing that, if we had more than just a four-hour 8 period, we'd be able to sell quite a bit more of those 9 instant bingos without it being the type of activities, 10 as Billy has said, the limitation being is to not make 11 this the charity's primary fund-raiser but to make them 12 auxiliary -- is that the word you used -- because of 13 the -- it wouldn't take a lot to manage that if you had 14 it in the form of an IBC. 15 You wouldn't be pressuring the charity to 16 have more people man that activity. It would be less 17 people. And you could expand it to eight hours and 18 really increase the profits to the charities and 19 perhaps even save their bingo operations currently 20 hurting. 21 So I would think that it would need to be 22 seriously looked at -- and, of course, that's a 23 legislative issue -- that the time frame be expanded 24 from four hours or eight hours or six hours and give 25 some consideration to that. That's important. 0031 1 MR. WHITTINGTON: Okay. David, let me 2 ask you a question. I know we're talking about some 3 something in the future, which I hope it happen, okay? 4 With the video pull-tabs and instant pull-tab devices, 5 I hope it happen. But I'm dealing with the present. 6 MR. HEINLEIN: Yeah. 7 MR. WHITTINGTON: What if it don't 8 happen? 9 MR. HEINLEIN: Well, if you're dealing 10 with the present, what you ought to do is a better job 11 of selling your event tabs you currently have available 12 to you. 13 MR. WHITTINGTON: Yes, we do. 14 MR. HEINLEIN: Yeah. And even in that 15 time frame you can -- 16 MR. WHITTINGTON: Maybe you do -- maybe 17 y'all have people coming to your place and buy 18 pull-tabs for four hours each session, eight hours a 19 day. 20 MR. HEINLEIN: Yeah. 21 MR. WHITTINGTON: But we don't, okay? 22 And that's why I'm dealing with the present. Of 23 course, I want the future things to happen, too. And 24 I'm pushing it and I hope it happen. I hope we get 25 everything that we shooting for, okay? 0032 1 But as of present, we don't have that. 2 And I -- 3 MR. HEINLEIN: And why do you think it is 4 that you can't sell those event tabs currently? 5 MR. WHITTINGTON: We can. Who said that 6 we can't? 7 MR. HEINLEIN: I thought you just said 8 you can't. 9 MR. WHITTINGTON: No. 10 MR. HEINLEIN: I misunderstood. 11 MR. ATKINS: Well, you said you didn't 12 have people coming in playing those event tabs all the 13 time. 14 MR. WHITTINGTON: No, I never said we 15 didn't have people coming in and playing them. 16 MR. ATKINS: Well, let's go back then 17 because I guess David and I heard something else, 18 Larry. 19 MR. HEINLEIN: I heard you say that you 20 were unable to use the event tabs in your hall as a 21 profit maker for in excess of what you've ever done in 22 the past in instant bingo. Isn't that what I heard you 23 say? 24 MR. WHITTINGTON: Instant bingo -- 25 MR. HEINLEIN: Instant bingo -- event 0033 1 tabs, you know, is a form of the instant bingo. 2 MR. WHITTINGTON: I don't think I said 3 anything about instant bingo. I said we need more 4 time for -- I was talking about charity. I wasn't -- I 5 never -- 6 MR. HEINLEIN: Oh, okay. 7 MR. WHITTINGTON: -- was talking about 8 pull-tabs. 9 MR. HEINLEIN: But with -- with the -- 10 even, though, with the current time frame you have, I'm 11 not sure. But what you might do, an expansion of your 12 sales if you capitalize on the new products that are 13 currently available and there being -- you know, you're 14 getting more products you've got to get all the time to 15 approve. 16 And so you've got a change -- a rapidly 17 turning product line now that's been made available to 18 you. It's just a little harder to sell because you 19 have to have people and you've got to have more staff. 20 In one hall that we've just recently got 21 going in the last few weeks I got a report yesterday 22 they had to hire four additional people to sell them, 23 but they more than tripled their sales. 24 So, you know, it's a product -- if you 25 really investigate what you can do with it, you can 0034 1 really increase your bottom line and profits to the 2 charities. Because in those cases, we're seeing from 3 500 to a thousand dollars a session or more going into 4 the charity's bank. 5 MR. WHITTINGTON: I understand that. We 6 do -- 7 MR. HEINLEIN: Even -- even in the 8 current five or four hours -- and what we've said -- 9 Suzanne said it and I echoed her that, if we had even 10 more than that four hours, then that profit could even 11 be increased even more. 12 MR. WHITTINGTON: Of course, I talked 13 about the time -- 14 MR. HEINLEIN: And even in a hall that's 15 not doing real well, if they had a little bit more 16 time, like you're saying, they might could improve 17 that, as well. 18 MR. WHITTINGTON: Yes, we need time. I 19 know that. We're talking about that. 20 MR. HEINLEIN: The current product that 21 you're having to sell does -- it is labor-intensive, 22 though. And so it does take a lot to actually -- to 23 promote it to do that. 24 Whereas, with the possibility of another 25 type of product such as an IBC, then you would have 0035 1 less labor-intensive games to relieve that burden. 2 MR. ATKINS: And I guess where I got 3 confused, Larry -- so your organizations currently 4 conduct the entire four hours? 5 MR. WHITTINGTON: Oh, yes. Yes, we do. 6 MR. ATKINS: Okay. 7 MR. WHITTINGTON: We conduct four hours. 8 What I'm saying, a lot of that time is not being 9 utilized because they only come in at certain times. 10 We have tried to get them early or the whole four 11 hours, but they come in -- we use about an hour and a 12 half, two hours of a session time, as far as bingo and 13 selling pull-tabs because they just don't come no 14 earlier. 15 MR. HEINLEIN: But what I have been 16 finding -- and people have called me from around the 17 state -- is that they don't really have a concept of 18 what is even possible. 19 When one particular hall started really 20 working hard at that, they called me and said, "Man, we 21 had a record weekend. We sold 50 thousand dollars 22 worth of pull-tabs. That's probably a statewide 23 record." 24 No. I got a couple halls that always 25 sell over 50, maybe 60 thousand dollars worth of 0036 1 pull-tabs every weekend. And he kind of lowered his 2 head. He said, "We sold 15 thousand in one session." 3 Well, we often sell 20 thousand in one session. 4 So I don't think it's -- I think people 5 really don't -- can't even imagine what is possible. 6 But it is. And I've -- I really believe it's possible 7 at any hall. 8 MR. WHITTINGTON: Oh, I'm sure it's 9 possible. 10 MR. HEINLEIN: It's a matter of 11 structuring. And if you had a little bit more time, 12 then I think you could even increase it more. But if 13 people will sell the current product that we have 14 already available to us, they can greatly increase the 15 profits in their hall. 16 And with the possibility of another type 17 of a delivery system, such as the IBC, I think that's 18 going to expand more types of charity halls being able 19 to avail themselves of those profits. 20 MR. WHITTINGTON: Well, I just think we 21 need to get to all these halls and whoever's doing all 22 this and tell 95 percent of these halls that we need to 23 get -- as far as pull-tabs and bingo wouldn't be any -- 24 wouldn't be in trouble at all. 25 MR. HEINLEIN: I think bingo wouldn't be 0037 1 in trouble today if there -- if more halls were, you 2 know, really availing themselves of what's already 3 provided to them with these event tabs and instant 4 bingo. 5 MR. WHITTINGTON: We should get some 6 training sessions from those halls. 7 MR. HEINLEIN: They just about need a 8 training session. 9 MS. ROGERS: Danny, I have a question for 10 you. Are any of these -- I know these are all 11 legislative decisions, correct? 12 MR. MOORE: Yes. 13 MS. ROGERS: Many of this -- these items 14 on here? Are any of these ready? I know it says more 15 research is needed. None will go through this 16 legislation period, correct? 17 MR. MOORE: I wouldn't assume that. 18 MS. ROGERS: Okay. 19 CHAIR TAYLOR: On several of these, for 20 instance, progressive bingo, previously before you came 21 on the committee, the Bingo Advisory Committee has -- 22 correct me if I get this -- this wording wrong, Billy, 23 I guess. 24 We've already said that we support the 25 progressive bingo, the way the proposed law was written 0038 1 in the last legislative session and -- the one that was 2 vetoed, that we already supported that as the BAC. 3 And I would have to go back in the 4 minutes to see the exact wording, but something pretty 5 close to that. So some of it we've already said that 6 we agreed with it and we want it to go on and we're 7 supporting it. 8 MS. ROGERS: Okay. 9 MR. FENOGLIO: I have one, and I'll bring 10 it up to you in just a moment. My name is Stephen 11 Fenoglio and I represent over 950 charitable and 12 business organizations. 13 And Ms. Rogers, in answer to your 14 question, there is a coalition that has been formed in 15 conjunction with the Bingo Industry Group, a number of 16 charities including the state VFW, the other veterans 17 organizations and a number of large and small animal 18 groups to -- and manufacturers and distributors -- to 19 push the instant bingo cardminding issue. 20 And we had introduced -- or not 21 introduced. We prepared legislation in the last 22 special session and had worked with the staff and the 23 commissioners and other interested groups, including 24 some members of the BAC itself, on that. 25 We will have legislation -- try to get 0039 1 that across the goal line this session. There are 2 other people in the industry that will also be pushing 3 satellite linked bingo. 4 And as Ms. Taylor -- Chair Taylor said, 5 I'm sure progressive bingo will be on that agenda list, 6 as well. Within that is also Chairman Kino Flores. 7 Committee House Licensing Administrative Procedures, 8 they've already issued a legislative report that I 9 think Billy has circulated. 10 And those are more in the nature of 11 legislative reforms. But some of the issues y'all 12 talked about are ripe for consideration there and, as 13 well as you probably recall, the lottery Sunset. 14 So there will be quite a bit of 15 legislative activity. And I'll be happy to answer any 16 questions. Thank you. 17 CHAIR TAYLOR: Is there any other public 18 comment on this subject? 19 AGENDA ITEM NO. 5 20 CHAIR TAYLOR: No other comment, we'll 21 move on to the next item, item number five, report and 22 possible discussion on review of the operations manual. 23 Mario? 24 MR. MANIO: Thank you, Suzanne. The -- 25 the last operations manual was published in 1992. So 0040 1 sometime in last year, middle of last year, the BAC 2 decided to form a work group to update the operations 3 manual. 4 The members of the work group are 5 Marshall McDade and Joe Mehaffey out of the Dallas 6 Regional Office of the Texas Lottery Commission, 7 Patricia Greenfield, public member, and myself. 8 The work group has created a version of 9 the new operations manual. And as of last week, the 10 version -- well, the version is not available to the 11 public yet. Last week it was still with the legal 12 division of the -- of the Lottery Commission for 13 review. 14 And so I'd like to ask Marshall if there 15 is any new development on the -- or something that you 16 might want to add on the status of the operations 17 manual. 18 MR. MCDADE: Marshall McDade, I'm a 19 senior audit manager. There is no current update as 20 far as the manual is concerned. Right now it's being 21 reviewed internally within Bingo Division before we 22 submit it to the legal -- our legal department for 23 their review. 24 And that's all we have for right now. 25 CHAIR TAYLOR: Marshall, did you say it 0041 1 had been sent to legal or it was not ready to send to 2 legal? 3 MR. MCDADE: Not ready for legal yet. 4 MR. MANIO: That's it. Thank you, 5 Marshall. 6 CHAIR TAYLOR: And do we have any public 7 comment on this item? 8 AGENDA ITEM NO. 6 9 CHAIR TAYLOR: If not, we'll go on to 10 item six, report, possible discussion on nomination for 11 Bingo Advisory vacancies. Kimberly? 12 MS. ROGERS: It's myself, Danny Moore and 13 Pete Pavlovsky. Got it. We just received these 14 nomination forms and have not had time -- Danny and I 15 have spoken once and I've contacted a few people. 16 I will say we did have a lot of 17 nomination forms, which is great. And, again, we have 18 three seats we need to fill. But we will be contacting 19 all the rest of the individuals. And I look forward 20 that we should have something by probably next week for 21 Billy with some names. Correct? 22 MR. ATKINS: Yeah. I was -- 23 MS. ROGERS: Okay. 24 MR. ATKINS: I was -- the vacancies or 25 the seats up for nomination are Pete's, Mario's, and 0042 1 the current vacant position where you had nominated 2 Thomas -- or recommended to the commission Thomas 3 Weekly. 4 MS. ROGERS: Thomas Weekly, have you ever 5 gotten a hold of him? 6 CHAIR TAYLOR: As a matter of fact, Mr. 7 Weekly is here at this time. 8 MS. ROGER: Oh, good. 9 MR. ATKINS: I know that Mr. Weekly has 10 had the opportunity to speak with Commissioners Cox and 11 Clowe. I don't know -- have you gotten to meet with 12 Commissioner Olvera yet? 13 MR. WEEKLY: Yes. 14 MR. ATKINS: Okay. So his -- his 15 appointment would be ripe for the next commission 16 meeting. 17 CHAIR TAYLOR: Okay. 18 MR. ATKINS: And I don't believe that 19 that date has been set as of yet. 20 CHAIR TAYLOR: Okay. 21 MS. ROGERS: We will contact you as soon 22 as we have two names to recommend for the two 23 vacancies. 24 MR. ATKINS: Well, I would -- I would 25 encourage the nominations committee, if they are 0043 1 desirous to do so, to consider renominating -- never 2 mind. I retract that. We've discussed that. Never 3 mind. 4 MS. ROGERS: Okay. And that's all I 5 have. 6 CHAIR TAYLOR: Any public comment? 7 AGENDA ITEM NO. 7 8 CHAIR TAYLOR: Item number seven, report 9 and possible discussion on two new draft rules 10 regarding standard penalty guidelines and expedited 11 administrative penalty guidelines. Danny? 12 MR. MOORE: Thanks, Suzanne. This group 13 met on December 6th. We discussed several items, and 14 I'm just going to run through them. 15 Participants were maybe a little 16 concerned about the number of violations that were 17 listed in the administrative penalty rule. We were 18 considering if there was a way to maybe pare it down a 19 little bit. 20 The thought was that this might scare off 21 charities. A suggestion was offered to limit the list 22 of violations to those that have occurred most often 23 over the years or to maybe pare the list down to 24 consider the violations that -- I guess I should say 25 that -- that are most often occurring out there. 0044 1 The selection of violations to include 2 for the use with expedited administrative penalty rule, 3 several participants stated that there may be other 4 violations that could be included on the list. The 5 placement of violation in certain penalty categories, 6 the members requested that the staff look at the 7 placement of violations within the penalty categories 8 to make sure that an appropriate penalty is given for 9 each violation, take into consideration intentional or 10 inadvertent acts against the rules. 11 The size of the penalty, I think there 12 was some concern about categorizing them by the -- 13 where a charity falls in the -- I believe it's the 14 penalty charts. List them by their gross receipts. 15 And some members felt that it was unfair, maybe, just 16 to have a certain penalty allowed for them. 17 Let me see what else here. How we would 18 communicate the new penalty structure to the people in 19 bingo, whether it was through the Web site, the 20 Bingo Bulletin, or possibly using the operator training 21 program. 22 So right now I think we're planning 23 another meeting in February. Marshall is working on 24 that right now, so I'll turn it over to him. 25 MR. MCDADE: Again, Marshall McDade, 0045 1 senior audit manager. As Danny mentioned, we will be 2 getting together early February with the work group 3 members to go over what the staff has -- the 4 modifications to the penalty rules that we've been 5 working since -- as a result of the December 6th 6 meeting. 7 So we'll be getting with -- again, with 8 Danny and the other work group members to come up with 9 a date that we can meet. 10 That's all I have for right now. 11 MR. ATKINS: I'd add, members, that 12 copies of these drafts are on the division's Web site 13 so that the public can access them and review them and 14 also submit comments on these electronically. 15 And one last thing, we -- as it relates 16 to the rules as they are on the Web site, we're 17 encouraging comments by the 15th of February. 18 MR. SANDERSON: Phil Sanderson, assistant 19 director. I just want to add a caveat to that, that 20 the rules, the draft rules that are on the Web site 21 have not been updated from the meeting on December the 22 6th. 23 So, you know, they're still in the same 24 form as they were back then. 25 MR. ATKINS: Can we add those updated 0046 1 rules to the Web site then? 2 MR. SANDERSON: (Nodding) 3 CHAIR TAYLOR: I didn't see. What was 4 that response? Yes? 5 MR. SANDERSON: Yes. 6 CHAIR TAYLOR: On this, my biggest 7 concerns with these were limiting the violations, those 8 that have occurred. I think that makes real good 9 sense. Intentional versus inadvertent, I think, should 10 also be a big difference on this. 11 If somebody intentionally falsifies 12 paperwork, not only should they get a huge violation, 13 they should get booted right out. And unintentionally, 14 we all make mistakes, you know, everything from 15 depositing that deposit into the wrong account when 16 you've got two deposit slips there, to put it into the 17 general account by mistake instead of the bingo 18 account. I've seen them all happen. 19 So falsifying paperwork on purpose, they 20 ought to be out of bingo to start with. And I also 21 agree with, if it's a fine, it should be a fine. No 22 matter whether you're a rich man or a poor man, the 23 fine should be the same fine. 24 Is there any other discussion on this 25 topic from the group? 0047 1 MR. ATKINS: I just want to make -- 2 CHAIR TAYLOR: Or comment? 3 MR. ATKINS: I just want to make one 4 quick comment on your comment regarding the difference 5 between something that's intentionally versus something 6 that's done unintentionally. 7 You're talking about facts specific to an 8 individual case. 9 CHAIR TAYLOR: Yes. 10 MR. ATKINS: And so the rule is written 11 in such a way that it can be applied across the board. 12 CHAIR TAYLOR: Correct. 13 MR. ATKINS: So, you know, the -- whether 14 it's intentional or unintentional is specific to the 15 case. And what, you know, one person considers 16 unintentional, someone else might not. 17 CHAIR TAYLOR: Yeah. I think mostly I 18 was thinking of instances where you find out that 19 somebody has falsified paperwork on purpose, maybe the 20 gross receipts coming from bingo or any other things. 21 The people that give us all the -- the rotten apples is 22 what I'm talking about. 23 Public comment? 24 MR. FENOGLIO: Hello again. Stephen 25 Fenoglio. I had provided on behalf of a number of 0048 1 comments exhaustive -- a number of clients exhaustive 2 comments. And Mr. Chairman, I'm happy to report that 3 your staff works late because we were here, I believe 4 on a Thursday afternoon, Mr. Sanderson and I, until 5 about seven o'clock going over those. 6 And I know that some of them perhaps will 7 be reflected in the latest version. It's something 8 that's of a great deal of interest, as you might 9 imagine, Madame Chair, to the industry. And we look 10 forward to working with staff and hopefully bringing 11 back a product that we can all live with. 12 And if not, at least we've had a good 13 opportunity to have a full dialogue on this. And 14 thanks again, Billy, for -- in the last session -- 15 giving us that opportunity to have that dialogue. You 16 know, part of this process, it's difficult for us 17 sometimes on our side of the table to understand where 18 the staff is headed -- is positioned and then wants to 19 get. 20 And I know sometimes we've had 21 frustrations in getting y'all to understand. And I 22 think this is another example of where at least we're 23 communicating fully. And I think there will be a 24 number of other comments that will come in. 25 I would encourage you -- on your Web site 0049 1 is the original proposed rule. And if you want people 2 to comment by February 15, I would encourage you to 3 state that on the Web site. I looked at it two days 4 ago and didn't recall any informal deadline for 5 comments. 6 And certainly if y'all have revisions 7 that you're ready to share, we'd like to look at those. 8 So in addition to -- so we don't necessarily comment on 9 a proposed language that y'all moved away from, if you 10 will. 11 And I'll be happy to answer any comments. 12 MR. ATKINS: It's on Steve not -- not on 13 the home page where the link to the draft 14 administrative rules is. 15 MR. FENOGLIO: Right. 16 MR. ATKINS: But when you click on that 17 link and it takes you to that page with the two rules, 18 it has that February 15th date there. 19 MR. FENOGLIO: Okay. 20 MR. ATKINS: But we can -- 21 MR. FENOGLIO: Okay. 22 MR. ATKINS: We can look at putting it on 23 the home page, also. 24 MR. FENOGLIO: You know, sometimes 25 people, when they look there, they say, "Well, 0050 1 nothing's new. So I'm not going -- linking up." 2 And with -- with that in mind, Madame 3 Chair, I agree with you somewhat, although I think part 4 of the purpose of the rule is to encourage compliance. 5 And it occurs to me that, if it's a very small charity, 6 perhaps let's say it's a VFW post in far West Texas and 7 they conduct twice a week and it's purely in the nature 8 of more of a social activity, 25 members playing bingo 9 and they're a class A or B license, that the 10 recommended penalty would be perhaps different. 11 And there are a lot of factors that, 12 obviously, staff takes into consideration before they 13 would recommend a penalty as opposed to -- let's say 14 it's another VFW post in Houston, Texas, that is in a 15 commercially-run hall and they're a class J license and 16 they have not only -- and one of my comments was forget 17 gross receipts as a way of comparing. Look at net 18 receipts. 19 And we've had a whole series of 20 discussions about the importance of that on a variety 21 of topics. But it occurs to me that, if you're wanting 22 to ensure compliance, it may be appropriate in many 23 circumstances to have a recommended range, which I 24 think that's where the staff is headed. 25 And so for the small charity that nets 50 0051 1 dollars versus a large charity that might net several 2 thousand -- and I'll -- and, granted, the net -- and 3 when I say net, I mean gross receipts less prizes, what 4 the charity actually is going to deposit. 5 Granted, there are a lot more expenses 6 involved in a large hall than that VFW post in far West 7 Texas, but I think that's one of the things that just 8 because you've sinned, it may not -- the penalty may 9 not be the same for everyone. 10 And -- and I know that cuts both ways for 11 the staff, because they want to be -- at least they 12 tell me they do and I believe them. They want to treat 13 every licensee the same way. And so, in one sense, 14 you're right. If you're rich or you're poor, you ought 15 to pay the same fine. 16 But there are a whole host of agencies 17 that do look at other circumstances. And some charity 18 that doesn't have access and is not sophisticated may 19 have a different penalty than a charity that this has 20 -- this issue has come up again and again and they are 21 more sophisticated, if you will. 22 So I don't think there's a clear black 23 and white on that issue. And one of my positions has 24 been to let the staff -- I don't want an arbitrary 25 rule, arbitrary in the sense that the staff says, look, 0052 1 it's a penalty and it's a thousand dollars and we 2 don't -- we agree with you that it -- that this penalty 3 might be unfair, but that's what our rule gives us. We 4 don't have any discretion. 5 So I probably talked too long about that, 6 Madame Chair. 7 MS. IVES: Hi. My name is Sharon Ives, 8 Fort Worth Bookkeeping, and I'm commenting on the 9 standard administrative penalty guideline, paragraph H. 10 And these are the -- this is the one that 11 I printed off the Web site yesterday. Paragraph H, the 12 list of the statutory violations -- I'm sorry -- second 13 sentence, each violation constitutes a separate 14 offense, even if arising out of a single act. 15 I did comment on this same rule. I 16 believe it was in December. And I also served on the 17 work group. I would like to see that sentence changed 18 because I, myself, like other people here, have been 19 through many audits and, from one honest mistake, has 20 created five violations. 21 And I feel that that one violation -- all 22 five violations should be considered as one instead of 23 individually. 24 Also, on the table of the guidelines, I 25 would like to see, as my previous testimony, written 0053 1 warnings across the board for all first violations. 2 Right now, as it's currently in print, the only 3 warnings would be a category seven on first violation. 4 I'm not sure -- maybe I'm confused about 5 what the seven categories are. Is that a 6 classification on the severity of the violations? Am I 7 understanding this correctly? 8 MR. MOORE: I believe so. 9 MS. IVES: So what would be a category 10 seven? What violations would be a category seven? 11 MR. MOORE: Phil, you might be able to 12 answer that. 13 MR. SANDERSON: I'll defer to Marshall. 14 MR. MCDADE: Again, Marshall McDade. For 15 instance, a category seven item might be the license 16 wasn't the right size. It was up, but it wasn't -- 17 MR. ATKINS: What? 18 MR. MCDADE: The license -- violation 19 talks about the license or the -- I'm sorry -- the 20 operator sign being the proper size. It had to be one 21 inch in height, if it's not an inch in height then it's 22 a violation. 23 It happens. The license -- the sign is 24 there, so that's one we typically -- right now we 25 provide a warning letter on. We don't issue a monetary 0054 1 penalty. So that would be exactly a category seven, 2 whereas a category one may be the falsification of 3 documents. 4 The act, it was determined that it was -- 5 was intentional. So... 6 MS. IVES: And that's all I have. Thank 7 you. 8 CHAIR TAYLOR: Thank you. Any other 9 public comment? We didn't actually have this in our 10 books today. That's why we weren't quite sure where 11 you were, Sharon. But we do have a copy, so we know 12 what you're talking about now. 13 MS. LAUDER: Good morning. For the 14 record, my name is Carol Lauder. 15 MR. ATKINS: Carol? Carol? 16 MS. LAUDER: Yes? 17 MR. ATKINS: Up here. If you don't mind, 18 I'd actually like Suzanne to call your item -- 19 MS. LAUDER: Yes. I'm sorry. 20 MR. ATKINS: -- before you start. 21 MS. LAUDER: Okay. This is kind of new 22 to me. 23 AGENDA ITEM NO. 8 24 CHAIR TAYLOR: Okay. Item eight, 25 consideration of and possible discussion and/or action 0055 1 on the Bingo Advisory Committee and the Texas Lottery 2 Commission December 20th, 2004 meeting. 3 MS. LAUDER: Good morning. For the 4 record, my name is Carol Lauder. I'm an employee of 5 the Texas Controller's Office. And I worked with the 6 Bingo Advisory Committee, with the Bingo Division, the 7 commissioners at the Lottery Commission and the 8 industry and the public at the December 20th meeting. 9 I had the privilege of serving as your facilitator. 10 I just passed out a letter that was sent 11 to you on the 20th. I apologize that that did not get 12 out sooner. I know some of you did not actually 13 receive the letter. And for the benefit of people in 14 the audience, I am hoping that you will allow me to 15 read a little bit of the letter so that everybody is 16 understanding where we are. 17 It was addressed to each BAC member. At 18 the request of Chairman Clowe, I've been asked to 19 follow up with you on the facilitated meeting of 20 December 20th between the BAC, lottery commissioners, 21 Bingo Division staff and public industry 22 representatives. 23 I judged the meeting a success for two 24 reasons. First, the goals set for the meeting to 25 increase communication, share expectations, identify 0056 1 gaps in role expectation and goals and mutual learning 2 were accomplished. 3 I will come back to that. There is a 4 caveat. 5 In addition, each stakeholder group 6 received input and overall support for their defining 7 roles and goals. This accomplishment can provide great 8 insight for each stakeholder's chosen activities for 9 2005. 10 In an effort to provide support to you, 11 Chairman Clowe has asked me to share with him and with 12 you ideas for continuing the work that began on 13 December 20th, including information on how to maximize 14 the time you spend working on BAC issues. 15 In light of this request, I've been asked 16 to visit with you at your January 26th meeting. In 17 addition to providing ideas to you on how to move 18 forward, I'll be asking your input and feedback since 19 you've had some time since the meeting. 20 I'd ask that a copy of the scribe notes 21 were included in your notebooks. If that's not 22 possible, there are copies. I enjoyed working with you 23 on December 20th and look forward to providing ideas to 24 enhance your experience as a working member of the BAC. 25 Thank you for allowing me to read that. 0057 1 It really does summarize my agenda item and why I'm 2 here today. I'm hoping we do have a very collaborative 3 discussion for the next few minutes about the meeting 4 and your reflections. 5 Although we evaluate the meeting at the 6 time, it's very important to look back after some time 7 has passed for you to have an opportunity to reflect. 8 So my question to each of you, and I would hope to hear 9 from each of you, is: What did you see as the best -- 10 the greatest benefits of the meeting, if any? 11 Mario, would you start? 12 MR. MANIO: I'd be happy to. Thank you. 13 What I got out of that meeting or the -- to me, the 14 biggest benefit I got out of that meeting is I have a 15 clearer understanding of what I need to do and what I 16 must do as a member of the BAC and what I can do and 17 need to do as a private -- well, as a businessman or a 18 private citizen. 19 And the -- and so we -- new members of 20 the BAC had some ideas on some of the things that they 21 want to accomplish as a member of the committee. But 22 they are really -- you know, but my ideas when I joined 23 the committee was far, far more from what is allowed by 24 reality. 25 So -- and let me give you an example. A 0058 1 few moments ago we were discussing about a problem that 2 is specific to a bingo hall, like the charities falling 3 out. And when I -- 4 MS. LAUDER: I'm sorry. Like what? 5 MR. MANIO: Like an organization that's 6 pulling out of bingo. And, you know, that -- if this 7 is a phenomenon that's happening across the state, then 8 it's probably legitimate to discuss that in a forum 9 like this. 10 But if it's just specific to one bingo 11 hall or one business entity, this may not be the right 12 forum to discuss those things. And some -- that's one 13 of the things that I learned in the -- in the December 14 meeting, how to isolate my own problems with the 15 problem of the industry. 16 MS. LAUDER: Thank you. Larry? 17 MR. WHITTINGTON: Well, the best thing 18 that came from the meeting is that the staff, the 19 commissioners, as well as the BAC got together for the 20 first time. That meant a lot. 21 We discussed some issues about certain 22 things that -- what's happening in the bingo world, as 23 well as the people involved in bingo. But the only 24 thing that really bothered me at the meeting, I really 25 wasn't prepared for what was about to happen. 0059 1 And I was kind of like more of a listener 2 and more so than being involved and knowing what was 3 going on. 4 MS. LAUDER: Thank you. 5 MR. WHITTINGTON: And that's what 6 happened. 7 MS. ROGERS: Well, I agree with both of 8 them. I think we were able to get a better 9 understanding, as far as who can do what, you know, 10 what it's going to take to move forward. I think we 11 spelled it out pretty clearly. 12 I think it gave us all a better idea of 13 what we can do to make it better. 14 MS. LAUDER: Thank you. Billy? 15 MR. ATKINS: I think the biggest benefit 16 I saw from it is that everyone involved in the meeting 17 was very focused on the discussion at hand. And there 18 were direct communications between members of the BAC, 19 between the BAC and the commission, and there was just 20 a lot of attention given to the specific task at hand. 21 MS. LAUDER: Thank you. 22 CHAIR TAYLOR: I think one of the 23 greatest benefits for myself was knowing that the 24 commission is as worried about bingo as the BAC is 25 worried about bingo and knowing that they're in there 0060 1 with us and that they're going to support bingo and 2 work to help make the industry a stronger industry in 3 whichever way they can do it. 4 MS. LAUDER: Thank you. 5 MR. MOORE: I would agree with Billy. I 6 think it really forced the issues out because everybody 7 was kind of put on the spot. And I think that it's 8 beneficial. I think sometimes, you know -- well, I'll 9 say this. 10 I think I came to the meeting a lot more 11 prepared than maybe I had in the past. And shame on me 12 I didn't before. But I do take this serious. And -- 13 and I really thought the format was beneficial for 14 everybody that was involved. 15 As you can tell, the public was here. I 16 think they did a great job. I would say that we should 17 do one a year, if we could. And I'd love to see the 18 commissioners at a meeting every year, also. I think 19 it was probably our best meeting I've had in two and a 20 half years. 21 MS. LAUDER: Danny, when you said you 22 came to the meeting more prepared, do you mean that 23 meeting or today's meeting? 24 MR. MOORE: Well, you know, I just think 25 that -- you know, we start to think about things a 0061 1 little more. We hit on a lot of subjects that are 2 important. I know that right now the concern is very 3 high about bingo. 4 And with this session right now, it's -- 5 it's time for people to get active. And if they're 6 serious about things, they better do it now. 7 So thank you. 8 MS. LAUDER: Thank you. 9 MR. PAVLOVSKY: I think communication is 10 great. And if you don't communicate, I mean, the BAC, 11 the commissioners, and the -- and the people -- the 12 ladies and gentlemen that are in this audience to my 13 back, I might add -- and we're going to discuss that 14 later, I believe. 15 Anyway, I -- I -- I agree with everything 16 that's been said. I think it's great that we can 17 communicate. At first -- I think I've said this before 18 on record -- that I would like to see this meeting 19 occur once a year. 20 And it wouldn't be -- wouldn't be 21 terribly bad. But if we could at least do it every 22 other year, maybe a couple months before the 23 legislators convene so the bingo industry can get its 24 act together, where right now they're already in 25 session and it's going to be a mad rush, you know, for 0062 1 someone to draw up legislation. 2 But I think it's great. Communication 3 is -- solves a lot of problems. 4 MS. LAUDER: Thank you-all for your 5 input. One issue I would like to speak to just for a 6 moment, and that is the sense that was -- the issue 7 that was brought up when we evaluated the meeting at 8 the time and has been brought up again today by Larry 9 and by Kimberly and I think possibly shared by some 10 other members was the feeling of not being prepared for 11 the format of the meeting. 12 And Billy -- Billy and myself and 13 Chairman Clowe have discussed that and greatly regret 14 that we did not plan the meeting in advance enough to 15 give you the information. There was no intent to 16 withhold that from you. 17 We would have preferred to have gotten it 18 to you sooner. We actually met and planned the 19 meeting -- the content of the meeting Friday before the 20 meeting on Monday. I actually developed the agenda for 21 the meeting Sunday before the meeting on Monday. 22 That was a big lesson learned for us. 23 And could we do it over again, we definitely all agreed 24 that we would we do it differently. It doesn't change 25 the fact that that was your sense about it. 0063 1 I want to congratulate you on -- as a 2 meeting planner and someone who has been facilitating 3 meetings and attended many more meetings, on the 4 participation that I saw that day and the participation 5 that I see today and on one -- what seems to be 6 possibly a minor thing, and that is your setup today. 7 That was one of my suggestions that I 8 hadn't had an opportunity to really make about how you 9 were set up in the past, where you set up in a fish 10 bowl type atmosphere like you were on stage performing. 11 That may not be how you felt, but that's 12 how it appeared to be as attendee to your meetings. 13 Now you're in a more working setting. And I -- it 14 seems to me there's been a lot of healthy discussion 15 this morning. 16 I don't know of how much it has to do 17 with the setup. But small things like that can really 18 make a difference in adding effectiveness to your 19 meeting. And that's kind of why I'm here today is to 20 share just some ideas. 21 What you did on December 20th was to 22 define your role, as well as the other stakeholders' 23 role -- we're just talking about the BAC right now. 24 That is a real working document. If you will take the 25 opportunity to review the roles that came up that day, 0064 1 some items in the roles were actually to-dos and items 2 that you could flush out and put on your agenda. 3 That document could serve you for the 4 next year in your role as the BAC, as well as the goals 5 that were developed. And so I'm here to share that I 6 think you have committed members, which is key to being 7 successful. 8 I think you have willingness to do the 9 work and passion for what you're doing. Those are all 10 key elements. Those are the elements that you have. 11 The elements that I think are possibly 12 missing from your meetings are the to-do lists as 13 you're going through an agenda item so that you have 14 outcomes from each and every meeting. 15 And I'd like to use an example from this 16 morning. One example was when Danny was talking 17 about -- well, let's just go to the example Larry had 18 where you would expand the hours, the amount of time or 19 hours a bingo hall can be open. I may be -- may be 20 messing that up a little bit. You-all know what I'm 21 referring to. 22 You know, that item y'all had a lot of 23 good healthy discussion. If you were doing a who, what 24 and when action list , then you would have an outcome 25 from having had that discussion. But right now it's 0065 1 just kind of out there. 2 And there was good discussion, but there 3 were no outcomes from the discussion. And so I would 4 encourage you to try to keep a public scribe. You 5 could -- one of you -- you could rotate the 6 responsibility. You could ask Billy for support from 7 his staff. 8 And someone would just say: Okay. On 9 this item, who -- who might do what? When are they 10 going to do it and what is it that they're going to do? 11 CHAIR TAYLOR: Let me interrupt you for 12 just a minute. 13 MS. LAUDER: Sure. 14 CHAIR TAYLOR: A lot of the things, the 15 reason we can't do that is because it's a legislative 16 issue. There's not another thing that we can actually 17 do. Some of the groups that are out working, some of 18 the associations that are taking this stuff to the 19 legislature are working on that. 20 But as a group, there's nothing more we 21 can do with that since it's a legislative issue. 22 MS. LAUDER: Okay. Can I play devil's 23 advocate? I understand, Suzanne, that you cannot 24 effect that change directly. You can't make the change 25 happen. 0066 1 But to me, you can put on the list that 2 you, either the BAC or you -- someone individually, is 3 going to visit with the lobbyist that represent bingo 4 about possibly including that in some legislation. 5 I mean, maybe I'm making up a bad 6 example. But the little things that contribute to 7 communication are the kinds of things I'm talking 8 about, not necessarily we're going to go get this 9 legislation changed, but what are you going to do to 10 foster the creation of the people who can get it 11 changed to do something. 12 And that's not a great example, but those 13 little bitty to-dos are the small steps to lead to 14 major accomplishment, because maybe there's someone key 15 that's not in the room today that didn't get to benefit 16 from the discussion. 17 And so if there's an agenda item or a 18 to-do item, I should say, outcome in your notes, when 19 people go to read those notes on the Web site, they can 20 see that that is a goal. 21 That's the other thing I wanted to 22 address is that you should add -- you should consider 23 adding things to the goals that were developed on 24 December 20th. Several of you did not -- none of you 25 had an opportunity to prepare that that question was 0067 1 going to come up. 2 I think there's probably a ton of things 3 that you could add to what you consider your goals. 4 And so you could add to your goals at every single 5 meeting and flush out further your role as the BAC. 6 MR. MANIO: I have an answer to one of 7 your statements -- 8 MS. LAUDER: Sure. 9 MR. MANIO: -- regarding the preparation 10 or lack thereof. I think it's -- it came out very 11 well, too, because since we did not have time to 12 rehearse what we were going to say, we all had to speak 13 out of our hearts. 14 So it came out sincere and it's really 15 what we feel, you know, that came out during that 16 meeting. 17 MS. LAUDER: So for you, you felt like 18 the off the cuff was a sincere way to express yourself? 19 MR. MANIO: For the first time, yes. 20 MS. LAUDER: Yeah. 21 MR. MANIO: Of course, it's always good 22 to come prepared for anything. But in this particular 23 instance, it turned out very well since it was 24 spontaneous. 25 MS. LAUDER: Thank you. Some other goals 0068 1 that I would have for you to include in your meetings 2 would be for you to -- in addition to keeping a running 3 list of action items or a to-do list that includes who, 4 what and when, for you to consider having some ground 5 rules for your meetings. 6 Ground rules, the word sounds very trite. 7 I will give you that. But if there are ground rules, 8 for instance the ground rules that we used that day, it 9 gives people a reason to challenge each other within 10 the ground rules and it keeps it from being personal. 11 If Pete wants to say to Danny, "You know, 12 I disagree and let me tell you why" and one of the 13 ground rules is that you agree to disagree some of the 14 time, that ground rule gives Pete every -- not that 15 Pete wouldn't say "I disagree with you, Danny." 16 I'm not saying that he wouldn't. But in 17 meetings such as this, sometimes the concern is that 18 you don't want to hurt someone's feelings and it can 19 become personal. When you have a certain set of ground 20 rules, the ground rules everyone has agreed to, and 21 then you enforce the ground rules, it takes all the 22 personal issue out of enforcing the ground rules. 23 So I hope that you will consider looking 24 at the ground rules that we used that day, seeing which 25 ones you think might benefit your committee, and 0069 1 consider adopting some ground rules for your meetings. 2 And the way to do that would be to keep them posted at 3 each meeting and then for you -- everyone is a 4 facilitator in a meeting. 5 There's a formal facilitator and then 6 each member is a facilitator to say, "You know, 7 Kimberly, I'd like to challenge an assumption that I 8 think you just made on this issue." 9 Okay? Overall, I think you are a long 10 way toward creating what I would refer to as a 11 strategic plan for the BAC's success. You've defined 12 your roles, which it sounds like some people would like 13 to revisit -- and I would encourage you to do that and 14 add to that -- revisit the goals that came up that day, 15 and do some more brainstorming to add to those goals. 16 And then you really have the structure 17 for your strategic plan, what are you going to focus 18 on. Of course, other things will come in. Billy will 19 bring things to the BAC. I'm sure there's other ways 20 in which you add to your list. 21 But when you are organized in that way 22 strategically, then it's almost impossible to fail. 23 You've got a lot of support from the commissioners, 24 industry and the public and from Bingo Division about 25 your roles and goals. 0070 1 I would encourage you, as you add to that 2 list, to solicit their continued support for items that 3 you add. And then, to me, you can -- you cannot fail 4 because you're focused, you know where your energies 5 are, you know who's doing what when. And so all of 6 your meeting time has an outcome. 7 Let me just see if I have any other 8 comments. Oh, I wanted to look at the to-do list that 9 was developed on December 20th -- and I passed that out 10 earlier -- as an example of what this would look like 11 for you. 12 Does everybody have this? It says 13 charitable bingo meeting December 20th to-do list. The 14 first item says provide BAC members a copy of Billy's 15 presentation that he made to interested legislators. 16 That was thrown out by the commissioner, I believe, the 17 chairman. 18 And the way I documented this to-do list, 19 responsible party was Bingo Division. The time line, 20 they're to do that by December 31st. They actually 21 completed that on December 21st. So that took place. 22 Second item, Commissioner Cox recommends 23 use of bingo publications as a form of advertising or 24 getting the word out about bingo. Responsible party is 25 industry and Bingo Division. I'm -- and I may have 0071 1 this wrong. I -- I'm using this as an example. Time 2 line, to be determined, if agreement is reached. 3 Status is incomplete. 4 Third item, look at bingo -- look at BAC 5 providing a short summary of their meeting notes to the 6 public. Responsible party, bingo members to evaluate 7 the suggestion and act based on their decision. Time 8 line, to determine if approved. Status, incomplete. 9 I won't go through all of this, but I 10 wanted to show you this as an example of the follow-up 11 that would take place if you kept a running to-do list. 12 And then when you come to do any kind of summary or 13 report of your activities over the year, any kind of 14 annual report or any kind of -- you're being evaluated 15 as to your performance, these documents would come 16 together and you would have a summary of all that you 17 accomplished and all that you did over a certain period 18 of time, as well as a way to track what needs to be 19 done. Questions? 20 I encourage you to use a parking lot. I 21 know Pete's familiar with a parking lot. We used it 22 several times. A parking lot is when an issue comes up 23 that's off the topic, off the agenda item. And they 24 come up a lot in all the meetings I facilitate. 25 Parking lot items are wonderful items. 0072 1 They're usually something very, very important but 2 they're off the topic. They're off the agenda item. 3 And it's a way to track those items so that they're 4 kept up with. 5 And last, I have been asked -- the 6 chairman asked me if I would be available to facilitate 7 your meetings if you so chose that you would want to 8 utilize a facilitator on a short-term basis or even a 9 longer-term basis. 10 And I will just say that I will do 11 everything in my power to make myself available to you 12 if the BAC decides that they would like to entertain 13 the idea of me facilitating meetings. 14 Thank you. 15 CHAIRMAN CLOWE: Let me sit here. And 16 stay there, if you will, so I won't use your 17 microphone. 18 MS. LAUDER: Yes, sir. 19 CHAIRMAN CLOWE: My name is Tom Clowe and 20 I'm chairman of the Lottery Commission. Madame 21 Chairman, may I make a comment regarding Carol's 22 comments? 23 CHAIR TAYLOR: Always. 24 CHAIRMAN CLOWE: Thank you. First of 25 all, I want to tell you that I think this is the best 0073 1 meeting that I've attended of the BAC. And I'll get to 2 telling how I feel that way in just a minute. 3 But the reflection on the joint meeting 4 was, on behalf of the participants, I think, when we 5 ended that meeting very positive. And then 6 subsequently, Carol and Sandy and Billy and I met and 7 we discussed, you know, what are we going to do, the 8 things we need to do list. 9 And that's where we came to the idea of 10 the agenda item on the commissioners meeting about 11 reflecting on the joint meeting and then this item on 12 your agenda. 13 I think I can fairly represent to you 14 that the commissioners feel very positive about the 15 joint meeting. That was discussed in the commission 16 meeting. And I think each and every commissioner in 17 his own way expressed his feelings about the 18 positiveness of it. 19 I'm wanting to encourage you here this 20 morning, based on what I'm seeing and your comments -- 21 Mario, you made my heart glad when you made your 22 comment first off about you see the difference in the 23 issues. And I think that was illustrated here this 24 morning where there was a discussion about the need for 25 some more revenue opportunities, whatever it might be, 0074 1 and you mentioned a number of items. 2 And then a comment was made, well, you 3 know, those are all legislative items. And there was 4 understanding, it seems to me, and agreement about 5 that. And then Mr. Fenoglio stepped forward, as a 6 representative of industry members said, you know, 7 we're going to work on that. We're going to deal with 8 that. 9 He, I think, told the BAC that the 10 industry, through industry leadership, is dealing with 11 that with the legislature. And you turned it loose. 12 And you didn't spend two hours talking about something 13 that you can't do in this meeting. 14 And I just -- that's -- that's great. 15 And then you turned to the business of the operations 16 manual and the disciplinary aspect of rules and 17 violations and you dealt with that in a very 18 professional way. 19 Your work groups are very efficient. And 20 to me, you know, you're in focus. And I hope that you 21 will deal with the to-do list and you will respond to 22 Carol's offer about facilitation. The -- the group is 23 really moving ahead, in my opinion, in the observations 24 that I've made today. 25 You're not there yet. You need some 0075 1 help. You need some coaching, I think. And you need 2 some strong leadership. Suzanne, I encourage you to 3 step up and get a discussion going on the to-do list. 4 The commissioners are very supportive to your to-do 5 list. And the commissioners, in their meeting earlier 6 this month, said they would follow through on their 7 to-do list. 8 And you need somebody, I think, like 9 Carol or somebody in the BAC group, someone else, you 10 know, to say here's what we need to do and not fall 11 back into the pattern of well, we'll just deal with 12 these agenda items as Suzanne and Billy put them on the 13 agenda. 14 And that's what I mean when you get over 15 singing cumbaya, you know. That enthusiasm when we're 16 meeting is great. But then it takes the list that you 17 stay with it. I just feel very positive about the 18 result of that joint meeting. 19 I see no reason why it can't be done once 20 a year. I think it would be beneficial. I want to 21 reinforce the comment that was made about the 22 commissioners care about bingo. That's uniform in each 23 of the three commissioners. They're the most 24 knowledgeable about bingo that I've seen since I've 25 been on this board for six years now. 0076 1 But, you know, the ball is not so much in 2 their hands as it is in your hands on certain subjects. 3 And then it's in the industry's hands on other 4 subjects. And I assume that you're leaders here at the 5 BAC and you're leaders in the industry. And then there 6 must be other leaders in the industry that must step up 7 and deal with those legislative items. 8 But the commission wants to give you all 9 the help it can. And we're trying to demonstrate that 10 to you and coach you and mentor you into being the most 11 effective group representing the industry to the 12 commission that we've ever had here at the Texas 13 Lottery Commission. 14 And surely that will benefit your 15 industry. And I think that's one of the commitments 16 the commission has. 17 So Madame Chair, my hope is you will deal 18 in some detail with the to-do list that came out of 19 that meeting and that you will respond to Carol's offer 20 of some participation to help you or, you know, just 21 tell her no, we don't need your help anymore and we'll 22 do that internally. 23 That's -- that's a very valid answer. 24 But you need to be decisive about how you're going to 25 move forward and keep this thing going. And the 0077 1 commissioners are open to you calling on them at any 2 time for anything that is within the scope of their 3 authority and the statute that governs the division and 4 its operations. 5 Any questions for me or comments back? 6 We can agree to disagree, as Carol said. Carol, any 7 thoughts about what I've said? 8 MS. LAUDER: I just want to say that my 9 services can go from a consulting standpoint to 10 full-blown meeting facilitation. So there's lots of in 11 between, lots of gray area where I could provide 12 counsel. 13 I don't know how that works in public 14 meetings and I'm fairly ignorant of the public meeting 15 process. So you would have to help me with that. But 16 I think -- I just want you to know it's not just 17 full-blown participation or no assistance at all. 18 Thank you. 19 CHAIR TAYLOR: Thank you. Any comment 20 from the committee? Thoughts? 21 MS. ROGERS: Well, I guess we should -- 22 we should discuss. This is the time we should discuss 23 whether or not we take a vote whether she's going to 24 come facilitate our meetings or not or what's the 25 protocol? 0078 1 CHAIR TAYLOR: It's an action item, so we 2 can do that. 3 MS. ROGERS: So I guess the question to 4 everyone is: Do we think we need to have Carol 5 facilitate our meetings? 6 I think -- I think Carol had a great 7 suggestion. I do think maybe a little to-do list -- we 8 could discuss, you know, what each individual would go 9 down -- whether or not we want to take turns standing 10 up and writing that, I don't really know. 11 So I pass it to you. I guess we take a 12 vote? 13 CHAIR TAYLOR: Before we go any further, 14 there's something that I keep wanting to say and I keep 15 forgetting it. Kim's the one that took these 16 discussion notes and got them all typed up for us and 17 has them ready for our notebooks. 18 And I want to say thank you so much. It 19 was a huge -- 20 MS. ROGERS: You're welcome. 21 CHAIR TAYLOR: -- undertaking, and she 22 did that. And we all need to thank her for that. 23 Back to the discussion, Mario, how do you 24 feel about that? Do you feel we need a facilitator? 25 Do you think we can be helped? Do you want her to be 0079 1 on call? 2 MR. MANIO: That's a tough question. 3 CHAIR TAYLOR: Is this something that you 4 want to give more thought -- I personally didn't get 5 the letter out of my mailbox yet, so I really -- 6 MR. MANIO: My feeling is we would 7 probably need the expertise of Carol at some future 8 time, maybe in the next meeting. I don't know. It 9 depends on what the agenda is going to be. 10 And since she has indicated that she will 11 be available, then we can -- we can call on her. 12 CHAIR TAYLOR: Larry? I know you haven't 13 had time to really think about this, so just off the 14 cuff. 15 MR. WHITTINGTON: Off the cuff, I don't 16 -- definitely don't want it set up the way it was on 17 December 20th. I mean, I'm sure there would be another 18 way where she can be involved and make things flow a 19 lot easier between us more so than paper and pencil and 20 you speak, you speak, you speak on down the line. 21 MS. ROGERS: I agree with that. I think 22 Carol has a lot of really good ideas, talk about this 23 is what you need to do, where are we going to move from 24 there. I think we should take advantage of her being 25 on call. 0080 1 Whether or not I think she should be at 2 every meeting, no, I do not -- I think we're doing 3 really well at keeping our meetings like this. I 4 appreciate the idea of the line-up, maybe if we turned 5 it this way. 6 I personally, if I was sitting on the 7 other side, would not like my back to the public. I 8 like to see the people, let them see my face, see how 9 I'm really feeling. So if we turned it maybe a little 10 bit, if we want to keep this setup, it would be fine. 11 So... 12 CHAIR TAYLOR: Personally, I think it 13 would be great to have Carol here, not necessarily 14 leading the group or leading the charge or taking 15 notes, but here so that if, for no other reason than 16 maybe after the meeting or towards the end of the 17 meeting to give us ideas. 18 I mean, if we get off track, give us 19 ideas on how we could be more productive during our 20 meetings, not necessarily lead the meeting but -- 21 because I knew -- I know in the past we have had a 22 tendency to get off track of where we need to be. 23 MR. MOORE: I tend to agree with you. I 24 think possibly having Carol as an agenda item like we 25 did -- and maybe not every meeting, but to see if we're 0081 1 following up on some of the things that we talk about 2 and if we're going to do this annually so that we stay 3 on course a little bit. 4 You know, for instance, I like the idea 5 of having some kind of summary or notes instead of 6 reading the minutes of every meeting, and in more 7 timely fashion. Even if it's a couple weeks after, I 8 just think it would be helpful to kind of put it all 9 together. 10 I mean, I try to keep it organized, but 11 it's -- I got to go back and run a company after this. 12 And it would be nice if I had a little more feedback 13 from our meetings in more timely manner. And I think 14 that would serve that purpose there. 15 So I don't think -- as far as her running 16 every meeting, I don't think I agree with that. We 17 skipped Billy. 18 MR. ATKINS: I don't -- I don't know that 19 it's really appropriate for me to comment on that 20 specific aspect, but I would -- Madame Chair, when 21 you're through, I'd like to comment on the process and 22 also on some of the other items. 23 MR. PAVLOVSKY: I agree that we should 24 agree to disagree. I -- I don't think it will be 25 necessary to have Carol here at every meeting. There's 0082 1 a to-do list that could be our work schedule for the -- 2 you know, the rest of the year. We've got to take care 3 of that. 4 I very much agree with Kimberly about 5 this configuration. I'd like to see Billy sitting over 6 here beside me to protect my back, Billy, or 7 vice-versa. But I think this configuration is not 8 good. Thank you. 9 CHAIR TAYLOR: And to go back, I agree 10 with you. I wouldn't want to be sitting in your chair 11 either because I like to be able to see. Because 12 sometimes you just know by looking at people whether 13 you're on the same track as everybody else in the room 14 or if you're off the train. 15 So I know that Carol talked about the 16 fish bowl appearance. But, however, I mean, we can all 17 see each other during that time that the room's set up 18 like that and we can also all be seen by the people 19 that we hope are coming to the meeting. So I agree 20 with you on that and Kim. 21 One other thing on the -- the to-do list, 22 some of the things on here we are -- we are getting a 23 new work plan. That is on the agenda. It's our next 24 item. 25 The minutes that Danny mentioned, I do a 0083 1 set of minutes -- not minutes, more or less very short 2 notes that go to the commission. But like we discussed 3 before, I don't have a problem with making them 4 available to the committee. 5 But it's just my perception or my brief 6 notes of what happened at the meeting for the 7 commissioners that weren't here. I don't have a 8 problem with making that available, as long as legal 9 doesn't have a problem with making that available to 10 the committee members. 11 MS. ROGERS: If you put that that was 12 your opinion of the meeting, would that suffice for 13 legal? Where is legal? 14 MS. JOSEPH: I'm sorry. 15 CHAIR TAYLOR: Our question was: I make 16 a -- I do a very, very brief report to the 17 commissioners. And I usually try and limit it to a 18 page or page and a half of the meetings so that they're 19 not trying to read through eight pages of words. 20 Is there anything wrong with providing 21 that to the other committee members or would that be a 22 problem? 23 MS. JOSEPH: And this is your minutes or 24 this is just -- excuse me. I'm Sandra Joseph. 25 CHAIR TAYLOR: The report that I make to 0084 1 the commissioners. 2 MS. ROGERS: It's your opinion of the 3 meeting, correct? 4 CHAIR TAYLOR: It's my perception of it. 5 MS. ROGER: Perception. 6 CHAIR TAYLOR: The high points of each of 7 the meetings. 8 MS. JOSEPH: Okay. I'm Sandra Joseph, 9 assistant general counsel. No, there wouldn't be any 10 problem with your providing it to the other members. 11 That would be entirely appropriate. 12 MS. ROGERS: Okay. Could it be made 13 public on the Web site or no, if you wanted it to be? 14 MS. JOSEPH: Yes, it could be. 15 CHAIR TAYLOR: Once I send it to Billy, 16 he usually looks through and see if I've made any huge 17 errors or -- he doesn't check spelling, I don't think. 18 However, I don't have a problem with them 19 being posted on the Web site. If that's not a problem 20 here, it's not a problem with me either. 21 MR. ATKINS: Real briefly on that issue, 22 I don't know if this would be a complete text. But I 23 think that, Suzanne, you had mentioned at the last 24 meeting that one of the things that benefited you, as 25 it relates to the minutes when they're posted on the 0085 1 Web site, is that it identifies the item number and the 2 page that it starts on. 3 And so we went back and looked at that. 4 And we thought the problem with that is that you would 5 also have to have the agenda to know what the item 6 number is. So one thing we've done that I think will 7 be helpful on a go-forward basis is we have talked with 8 the court reporting service and asked them on the index 9 to include what the actual agenda item is next to the 10 agenda number, as well as the page, so that the public, 11 when they access the minutes on the Web site, can go to 12 that index. 13 And they'll know, for example, that item 14 number eight is consideration of and possible 15 discussion and action on the joint BAC meeting and that 16 starts on page 89. 17 CHAIR TAYLOR: I personally think that 18 will be a tremendous help because the ones that did not 19 have the -- what is that called? 20 MR. ATKINS: Index. 21 CHAIR TAYLOR: The index. The ones 22 without the index I told Billy I had a really hard time 23 finding things in them because you just scroll for 24 pages and pages looking for key words. 25 One of the reasons that I've always read 0086 1 the item, the whole thing, is just in case there's not 2 an index. So if anybody's looking at our minutes, 3 hopefully they'll know they can find the item number 4 and go through that pretty quickly, which is why I have 5 been doing that. 6 Billy, did you have anything else you 7 wanted to discuss? 8 MR. ATKINS: I just wanted to comment 9 very quickly, if I could, a little bit on the process 10 of the joint meeting, as well as Carol's comments 11 today. And I've mentioned this before. 12 Carol came to our attention through Sandy 13 Joseph, who's with our legal division. They had worked 14 together at previous agencies. And Carol did spend a 15 considerable amount of time with myself and Sandy prior 16 to the process. 17 And I just wanted her to know that 18 personally for me, as well as I think for the staff, 19 she provided very valuable information on how hopefully 20 we can be more effective in terms of helping to 21 facilitate your meetings. 22 Since we're agreeing to disagree, I 23 disagree that there's anything wrong with the format of 24 the room. You know, I would consult with Carol 25 beforehand in terms of, you know, changing the setup 0087 1 one way or the another. 2 Because in terms of facilitation, one 3 thing we would keep in mind is, in the future, if we 4 had any presentations to make, we will make use of the 5 screen. And this allows for the best use of that. 6 But I do just want to extend to her on 7 the record my personal appreciation for her assistance 8 and advice in terms of the staff and myself being more 9 useful and productive and available to the BAC in their 10 meetings. 11 And as a further follow-up to that, when 12 it's appropriate, Madame Chair, I'd like to discuss one 13 of the items that came from the discussion notes of our 14 meeting on December 20th, which I believe would 15 probably fall under the agenda item. 16 Is now that time? 17 CHAIR TAYLOR: I guess so. 18 MR. ATKINS: Okay. One of the goals that 19 actually I had set for myself, as a result of the 20 meeting on the 20th, was to provide more information to 21 the Advisory Committee on some of the activities that 22 the Bingo Division has underway. 23 And I think that came about as a result 24 of the discussion that occurred on the legislative -- 25 the regular quarterly legislative hearings that the 0088 1 staff attends and the information that we provide to 2 legislators. 3 So along with that, there was some 4 information that I wanted to give you just some brief 5 information on, in terms of recent activities of the 6 Bingo Division. 7 The first is: Earlier this month on 8 January 7th, we issued a regular press release relating 9 to allocations made to local jurisdictions. And what 10 our intent is in the future is, whenever we issue a 11 press release related to charitable bingo, to copy 12 members of the Bingo Advisory Committee also. 13 I don't know that we can say specifically 14 the results of that press release has led to all of the 15 activities, but we did get follow-up from several 16 newspapers regarding bingo activities. There was so 17 far one article that's been printed in the Pasadena 18 Citizen as it relates to charitable bingo allocations. 19 But we've also been in contact with and 20 are working with two other publications that are 21 working on stories about bingo in general. And one is 22 the Odessa American, and they have a story planned for 23 this Sunday, the 30th, in their business section 24 regarding charitable bingo and, particularly, its 25 impact on the Midland/Odessa area. 0089 1 And there is another freelance reporter 2 here in Austin that writes for a weekly insert 3 publication in the Austin paper call XLent. And she's 4 doing a story on charitable bingo. 5 And I think that probably the most 6 interesting aspect about that is this particular 7 reporter falls in that 20-something category. And her 8 entire slant on the story is that she believes that 9 bingo is an activity that's been overlooked by that age 10 group. 11 So we don't have any information now when 12 or if that story will actually come to publication. 13 But we do think it will be very interesting, especially 14 given the -- her intended target audience here in the 15 Austin area. 16 CHAIR TAYLOR: Can I interrupt? One 17 other thing that -- I didn't realize where this came 18 from, but Channel 10 showed up at the bingo hall and -- 19 because of a press release they had received from the 20 Lottery Commission. 21 So we did get a free little blip for 22 about 10 seconds on the TV. But I didn't have a clue 23 on what they were talking about. But it's really good 24 to know there really was -- so I can tell you from 25 personal experience it did create some interest in 0090 1 bingo. 2 MR. ATKINS: And the response that we get 3 from news organizations varies wildly from quarter to 4 quarter. Sometimes, you know, we'll have a lot of 5 organizations, a lot of news organizations just hop all 6 over it. 7 Other quarters, you know, we'll get 8 interest from one or two. And we didn't know the TV 9 station was doing anything. The only thing I'm 10 reporting on are the actual follow-up calls that we 11 got. 12 So we know, incidentally that, whenever 13 we do a press release on bingo, someone somewhere reads 14 it. But what they necessarily follow up on, we 15 don't -- we don't always have the ability to identify. 16 What our plan is to do with the upcoming 17 allocation quarterly press release -- and quarterly 18 reports were due yesterday. When all of that's done, 19 of course, we'll do our regular quarterly report news 20 release or allocation news release to news 21 organizations. 22 One of the things we want to highlight is 23 the fact that in 2004 total charitable distributions in 24 the state of Texas from charitable bingo, since bingo's 25 inception, exceeded three-quarters of a billion 0091 1 dollars. We're at -- as of the third quarter of 2004, 2 at about 766 million dollars. 3 So we think it's very important to 4 highlight for those news organizations the amount of 5 charitable distributions that have gone to nonprofit 6 organizations since bingo was authorized in 1982. 7 The third thing that I wanted to share 8 with you, and I actually spoke individually with, I 9 think, after the last meeting Suzanne, David. And I 10 was thinking someone else, but I couldn't remember who. 11 MR. HEINLEIN: There was -- there was 12 another one. 13 MR. ATKINS: It was one other member, I 14 think, of the public. 15 MR. HEINLEIN: Phil Arnold. 16 MR. ATKINS: Phil Arnold. It dealt with 17 what -- something that we're working on internally in 18 the agency. And we refer to it loosely right now as 19 the bingo service center. 20 And what it will be is an on-line portal 21 where organizations will be able to obtain information 22 specific to their organization. It is not at this 23 point an interactive site. It is -- it is not set up 24 whereby you can submit information electronically to 25 us. 0092 1 But what organizations will be able to do 2 is go out to this site. It will require that they 3 create a user profile and develop a user password 4 and -- and a user name. But they will be able to go in 5 and on-line pull up information specific to their 6 organization, licensing information, financial 7 information. 8 Additionally, we're going to put up on 9 the Web site for anyone in the public to access what 10 are some of the most common requests we get for open 11 records. And our intent is to do it in such a way that 12 the information will be downloadable and individuals 13 can save it into an Excel file or an access file. 14 And also, it will include a bingo hall 15 locator service. That will be featured prominently on 16 the home page so that the public will be able to go out 17 and access the location of the bingo hall nearest them. 18 We are still in the very preliminary 19 planning stages working with the company that will be 20 doing the development. As we get closer to defining 21 the actual pages and information that will be 22 available, we'd, of course, want to bring it to the 23 Advisory Committee and get any comments or inputs 24 before we finalize the development of the actual pages. 25 But the purpose of this is to provide 0093 1 organizations with much more timely access to their 2 information and also to provide organizations the 3 ability -- if they have questions about specific 4 information, they'll be able to look at the same 5 information that the staff here is looking at and 6 they'll be able to talk about the exact same thing. 7 MS. ROGERS: I have a question for you. 8 MR. ATKINS: Uh-huh. 9 MS. ROGERS: As far as the charity will 10 be able to look up activities and things, will the 11 temporaries be on there also where you can see how many 12 you've played and when you used them? 13 MR. ATKINS: Yes, ma'am. 14 MS. ROGERS: Oh, great. 15 MR. ATKINS: Additionally, there will be 16 a screen on there that will let you know if you have 17 money in your escrow account. 18 CHAIR TAYLOR: Any other comments from 19 the committee? Public comment? 20 AGENDA ITEM NO. 9 21 CHAIR TAYLOR: Item number nine, 22 appointment of a work group to develop recommendations 23 relating to the Bingo Advisory Committee annual report 24 and recommendations to the Texas Lottery Commission 25 relating to the 2005 Bingo Advisory Committee work 0094 1 plan. 2 This is on the agenda because I had -- 3 was talking to Billy about the fact that how had 4 previous reports to the commissioners been done and he 5 had told me that they hadn't received any annual 6 report. 7 So we'd like -- I'd like to put a work 8 group together so that we can do an annual report of 9 what we've done, what our goals were for this last 10 year, what we've accomplished for the year. And 11 instead of it just being one person's perceptions, it 12 would be better, I think, if a work group worked on 13 this. 14 The committee -- at the same time, it 15 really should have some of the members that have been 16 on here the last year who have been aware of what we've 17 been working on. But it also needs to be a work group 18 for the next year so that we go ahead and get the work 19 plan for the following year put together at the same 20 time and kill two birds with one stone. So? 21 MS. ROGERS: I volunteer to be on it. I 22 haven't been here last year, but I'm here for this 23 year. 24 MR. ATKINS: Can I, for the record, 25 provide a little additional information on the report? 0095 1 CHAIR TAYLOR: Sure. 2 MR. ATKINS: Contained in Charitable 3 Bingo Administrative Rule 402.567(e) and it says the 4 committee will report at a minimum quarterly to the 5 commission on BAC's activities and more frequently as 6 deemed appropriate and necessary by the BAC presiding 7 chair. 8 I think that previous chairs, as well as 9 Suzanne, have complied with that section of the rule 10 because she does supply to the commissioners after each 11 of these meetings the summary that she spoke about 12 earlier of the events that occur at the BAC meetings. 13 This item speaks specifically to this 14 next portion. Annually, the BAC will report to the 15 commission with specific recommendations for 16 improvement the status of the following areas relating 17 to charitable bingo in Texas: 18 One, gross receipts; two, charitable 19 distributions; three, expenses; four, attendance; and 20 five, any other area requested by the commission. 21 So I do think it would be appropriate 22 with the appointment of this work group and in concert 23 with your report to the next commissioners that, you 24 know, you just let them know that the BAC is doing this 25 and is there anything under five that they would like 0096 1 to see the work group include. 2 CHAIR TAYLOR: So any other volunteers? 3 MR. MANIO: Yes, I would volunteer on one 4 condition, when my successor is finally determined, for 5 him to take -- him or her to take over my -- my spot on 6 this work group. 7 But yes, I would be happy to -- to get 8 the work group started and set some directions. 9 CHAIR TAYLOR: Okay. I'm thinking that 10 for -- with this particular work group -- and, of 11 course, I already had your name written down. The name 12 would still have to -- nomination committee would have 13 to bring the name to the BAC. 14 The BAC would have to recommend it to the 15 commissioners. The commissioners would have to review 16 the applicant. So I think that this work group is 17 going to have their -- their job about finished by the 18 time your successor would be named, so -- 19 MR. MANIO: Okay. 20 CHAIR TAYLOR: So I think you would just 21 be perfect for this work group. That's two. We're 22 looking for three. 23 MR. ATKINS: You can have -- you can have 24 up to four. 25 CHAIR TAYLOR: Okay. I would like to 0097 1 serve on this work group, also. So we need -- if one 2 more person would be interested. 3 MR. PAVLOVSKY: I would. 4 CHAIR TAYLOR: Pete? Great. This also 5 is one of those little items on the list that Carol 6 provided us our to-do list. And it's a very important 7 item, because this is where we're going to be going for 8 the next year. 9 If these items aren't on our work plan, 10 then they don't fall within the scope of our agenda. 11 So it's very, very important that we see where we've 12 been and where we need to go. 13 MS. ROGERS: I have a question for you, 14 Madame Chair. At this time, is it not easy -- being 15 here only the short time I have been -- to get new 16 items proposed like during the middle of the year on a 17 work plan? Is there a way to make that -- 18 CHAIR TAYLOR: I don't believe that we 19 have amended this work plan from the time that it was 20 pose proposed in -- a year ago. 21 MS. ROGERS: Okay. 22 CHAIR TAYLOR: I think it's -- we've been 23 working under the same work plan for the last -- from a 24 year ago. Mario, you -- I don't believe that you -- 25 this work plan does go to the commissioners for 0098 1 approval, does it not? 2 MR. ATKINS: Yes. And I -- I was just 3 thinking the current work plan had been amended once, 4 but -- and I can't -- 5 MS. ROGERS: And the current work plan is 6 the only thing that we can discuss at our meetings, 7 correct? 8 MR. ATKINS: No. The -- the discussion 9 at the meetings would be any changes to the work plan, 10 addition, deletions, whatever. 11 MS. ROGERS: Okay. 12 MR. PAVLOVSKY: Madame Chair, as I 13 understand Kim's question, can we add to the work plan 14 during the year, I don't see anything wrong with that. 15 MS. ROGERS: I just want to be sure I get 16 in, say, in the appropriate time because, I mean, bingo 17 changes from month-to-month, day-to-day, as we all very 18 well know. I don't want to set it in stone this is all 19 we can talk about for the next year, a to-do list -- 20 or, you know, if we need to add something. 21 Right? Am I saying that correctly? 22 MR. PAVLOVSKY: Yes. 23 CHAIR TAYLOR: I understand what you're 24 saying. 25 MS. ROGER: Okay. 0099 1 MR. ATKINS: And I would -- I would just 2 respond to that, that was discussed when the original 3 work plan was developed. And it's understood, I think 4 by the commissioners, that things can come up -- 5 MS. ROGERS: Okay. 6 MR. ATKINS: -- that would, you know, 7 necessitate a change to the work plan. I think what 8 their preference is that that change be thought out and 9 brought to them. But -- 10 MS. ROGERS: So three months from now, if 11 we wanted to discuss something different, we brought it 12 to you, you would take it to the commissioners, we 13 could add it to the work plan? 14 MR. ATKINS: But you wouldn't bring it to 15 me. 16 MS. ROGERS: Bring it to Suzanne. 17 MR. ATKINS: We would -- yeah. The 18 committee, through the chair in her report, would -- 19 would make that presentation. You know, the BAC met 20 and, you know, considered this and we feel it's 21 necessary to add, delete, whatever. 22 MS. ROGERS: Okay. Okay. 23 MR. MOORE: So Suzanne, what's that time 24 line? You got to do the '04 report right now? 25 CHAIR TAYLOR: The committee first needs 0100 1 to get the '04 report ready. But since we're already 2 meeting to do the '04 report that needs to get the work 3 plan -- so that we can get our new work plan and get 4 going on this for this year, because right now we're 5 kind of in limbo. 6 We need to finish up one year so that we 7 can get going with our new year is my understanding of 8 what we need to do here. 9 MS. ROGERS: Okay. 10 CHAIR TAYLOR: So does this committee 11 want to plan a meeting now or get back with the 12 meeting? 13 MS. ROGERS: Let's do it now. 14 CHAIR TAYLOR: Do you have a calendar? 15 Anybody have a calendar? 16 MR. PAVLOVSKY: What date? 17 MS. ROGERS: Pete does. Do you want to 18 do a telephone meeting or -- 19 MR. PAVLOVSKY: Yes. 20 MS. ROGER: -- together? 21 MR. PAVLOVSKY: Telephone. 22 MS. ROGERS: Telephone? 23 CHAIR TAYLOR: Any time except for the 24 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th of next month is fine with me. 25 MS. ROGERS: I'll be in Dallas. 0101 1 MR. MANIO: Well, we can meet in Dallas. 2 MR. PAVLOVSKY: Y'all go ahead. Pick a 3 date. 4 MS. ROGERS: Second week of February, 5 that sounds good, not Valentine's Day. Hopefully I'll 6 get roses. 7 MR. PAVLOVSKY: How about the 14th, 8 Monday the 14th? Tuesday the 15th? 9 MS. ROGERS: Sounds very good. 10 MR. PAVLOVSKY: What time? 11 MR. MOORE: You guys go at it. 12 CHAIR TAYLOR: Okay. That's fine with 13 me. The earlier the better. How about 10 o'clock? 14 MS. ROGERS: 10 o'clock. 15 CHAIR TAYLOR: Does that work, Mario? 16 MR. MANIO: Yes. 17 CHAIR TAYLOR: Okay. Billy, do we need 18 to have any staff involved with this or is this just 19 the work of the BAC? 20 MR. ATKINS: If you want staff to be 21 involved, you can, in terms of providing information, 22 providing -- I think I mentioned to you before we would 23 be happy to provide limited administrative support. I 24 don't know that we want to assume full responsibility 25 for the final preparation, etcetera. But we'll be -- 0102 1 CHAIR TAYLOR: She's a great typist. 2 MR. ATKINS: Yeah. 3 MS. ROGERS: Well, should we -- should we 4 be contacting someone with the staff to get some 5 information to put together for our meeting on the 6 phone? 7 MR. ATKINS: And I -- yes. And I would 8 ask that you contact Terry Shankle. And hopefully I'll 9 remember to let Terry know. 10 MS. ROGERS: I will contact -- do you 11 want me to contact Terry? 12 CHAIR TAYLOR: That would be great, Kim. 13 MS. ROGERS: And then I will contact you. 14 CHAIR TAYLOR: Great. 15 MS. ROGERS: Will that be fine? 16 CHAIR TAYLOR: Okay. So the meeting's 17 going to be set for Tuesday, 10 o'clock the 15th 18 telephone. 19 MS. ROGERS: Telephone. 20 CHAIR TAYLOR: Is there any public 21 comment to this item? 22 MS. LAUDER: Not to that item. 23 CHAIR TAYLOR: Anything more on this 24 item? Carol, did you want to talk? 25 MS. LAUDER: Not about that item. 0103 1 CHAIR TAYLOR: Okay. Okay. Then if 2 there's no other comment, we're -- 3 MR. MOORE: Number nine, okay. We're 4 talking about the work plan? 5 CHAIR TAYLOR: Yes. 6 MR. MOORE: Okay. Billy had mentioned 7 that they're going to try to give us more information 8 about what the Bingo Division is doing. I see that 9 it's -- it's not on our agenda, actually, and it's not 10 part of the work plan for them to do that. 11 I just -- I would like more feedback on, 12 you know, if there's anything going on up at the 13 Capitol, I'd like to know at our meetings what happened 14 because I don't know -- sometimes since we can't be 15 there, I just -- I'd like a report like Nelda did 16 today. 17 I don't know if that's out of the realm 18 of something that could be a part of this for the near 19 future just through June or whatever. 20 MR. ATKINS: Do you mean outside of these 21 meetings? 22 MR. MOORE: No. You already said you 23 were going to copy us on -- 24 MR. ATKINS: Press releases. 25 MR. MOORE: Right. Okay. Just the press 0104 1 releases? 2 MR. ATKINS: Uh-huh. 3 MR. MOORE: Okay. 4 MR. ATKINS: And, I mean, it -- it will 5 be a standing item on all, you know, future Advisory 6 Committee meetings, as long as they're in session, 7 Nelda's report similar to what she gave today. 8 And that will include, not only specific 9 legislation that's been filed related to bingo but, you 10 know, any other committee hearings, things like that. 11 MR. MOORE: Okay. That's great. 12 CHAIR TAYLOR: Okay. Any other 13 discussion? I would like to welcome Commissioner Cox. 14 I had to look around the room to -- there's so many 15 people here. Thank you very much for taking the time 16 to come to our meeting. 17 AGENDA ITEM NO. 10 18 CHAIR TAYLOR: We're down to public 19 comment. Do you have any comments you would like to 20 make? We'd love to hear from you. 21 COMMISSIONER COX: Well, I just got here. 22 If you've got any questions, I'll sure be glad to try 23 to help. 24 CHAIR TAYLOR: Any questions anybody has? 25 Okay. We're on public comment then, item number 10. 0105 1 MS. LAUDER: For the record, my name is 2 Carol Lauder. I think I'm real clear on what you did 3 not want, which was facilitated meetings. I'm very 4 unclear on what you did decide that you wanted me to 5 do. 6 And as I understand the Open Meetings Act 7 and your requirements to do everything in the open 8 meeting, then I'm at a loss of how to figure out what 9 it is you need from me without asking you now. So if 10 there is some service that you're asking me to provide, 11 I'm unclear about what it is. 12 CHAIR TAYLOR: On a personal note, I 13 would like the -- I personally like -- let me back up 14 and put this into words what I'm thinking. 15 I really would not like to have somebody 16 standing up with a chart for us, because I think that 17 we don't have a lot of argument here. And I think that 18 we work well as a committee. We don't have anybody 19 ranting or raving at each other. 20 But I know there's always room for 21 improvement and we do get off track. And if we had 22 somebody that could tell us that -- that we need to get 23 back on track or we were off of track or there was a 24 better way we could have done it or we could have been 25 more productive if we would have done it this way. 0106 1 I think side notes is what I would be 2 looking for, somebody to say, you know, it might have 3 been better if you -- if you would have done it this 4 way or that way or you should have been doing it one 5 way or the other. 6 MS. ROGERS: Sort of like putting her at 7 the end of the agenda to come up and comment? Is that 8 what you're thinking? 9 CHAIR TAYLOR: Or -- yeah. At the end of 10 the agenda would be great. I mean, I like -- kind of 11 like when you go through a classroom and you're not 12 actually one of the students in the room, that you're 13 watching the activities of everybody, making notes. 14 I mean, my vision would be that that 15 could be very helpful to us so that if -- if you see 16 items that we could do better, I'd love to have you 17 here just to let us know if you -- if you think that 18 there's something that we could be doing better that 19 we'd be more productive. 20 Because all of us come from a -- I come 21 from a long distance and a lot of us come from a long 22 distance at our own time and expense. And it's a shame 23 to come up here and just feel like you've totally 24 wasted your time coming, nothing productive happened. 25 So I would love to see our meetings be 0107 1 more productive, and not necessarily facilitated during 2 the meeting. But if you see ways to help us make it 3 more productive, I would love that. 4 MS. ROGERS: I -- I agree with that. I 5 would personally say, like with our work plan, we've 6 pointed out exactly what we're going to do and how 7 we're going to move forward, if sometimes we bypass 8 that and forget, that you came up and said, okay, y'all 9 said this, now -- you know... 10 MS. LAUDER: At the time? 11 MS. ROGERS: Keep us in a little bit more 12 of an order. 13 MS. LAUDER: At the time? 14 MS. ROGERS: I don't know. 15 CHAIR TAYLOR: Every item has a public 16 comment. So yeah, perhaps at the time. 17 MS. LAUDER: Okay. 18 CHAIR TAYLOR: We'd love you to be a 19 member of the public and make public comment. I would. 20 MS. ROGERS: I would, too. 21 MS. LAUDER: Okay. And in terms of the 22 specific recommendations like to use a public to-do 23 list, to use some ground rules, are there any of those 24 items that you're interested in entertaining, if that 25 would require some assistance from me, I suspect, which 0108 1 I'm happy to give, or if you're choosing not to do 2 those things, that's fine, too. 3 I have no vested interest in what you 4 decide, just in knowing how I'm expected to help you 5 and on what. 6 CHAIR TAYLOR: To-do lists, I think we 7 could use to-do list. 8 MR. PAVLOVSKY: Yes. 9 MS. ROGERS: We could use to-do lists. 10 CHAIR TAYLOR: Ground rules -- this is 11 all my personal opinion. Ground rules, I think that we 12 do very well without having ground rules. I think that 13 we've pretty well kept on track with the staff saying 14 that's not on the agenda. 15 They don't necessarily tell us to go to 16 the parking lot, but we're told that we can't talk 17 about it. So I don't think we have a whole lot of 18 choice on that. Whatever the rest of the committee 19 feels comfortable with is fine with me. 20 MS. ROGERS: Yeah. As far as getting 21 personal, I think we're all involved in the same realm 22 of business. So I think we've done pretty well at 23 discussing. I've only been here for a short time, but 24 I find this group to be able to discuss and say, well, 25 I don't agree with that but I do agree with this. 0109 1 And I don't think -- I don't think we 2 necessarily need -- 3 MS. LAUDER: And so if I understand, 4 you're agreeing that you're going to keep a public 5 to-do list, as you go through agenda items, answering 6 who's going to do what when. 7 CHAIR TAYLOR: Uh-huh. 8 MS. LAUDER: Then I will know what to 9 judge, whether you're keeping the commitments that you 10 made, and to provide comment. 11 CHAIR TAYLOR: Right. 12 MS. ROGERS: And as Billy said before, we 13 should come to you to see what would be another way to 14 set up. Do you want to think about that or -- as far 15 as seating arrangement. 16 MS. LAUDER: I think the square works 17 really well. Are you asking me now to comment? 18 MS. ROGERS: I guess, yes. 19 CHAIR TAYLOR: Would the square 20 necessarily need to face this direction? Could we turn 21 the square? 22 MS. LAUDER: I think it depends on 23 whether it changes your behavior when you change the 24 square. And -- and I can't answer that. I don't know. 25 CHAIR TAYLOR: Pete, can you be good? 0110 1 MS. LAUDER: I actually -- I actually 2 didn't mean whether someone's being good or not. But 3 what came up for me when I came to another meeting, 4 since we're -- you're asking and, as you-all know, I'm 5 quite direct -- was that your meeting did not have 6 substance. 7 And one of my observations was that you 8 were in a -- kind of in the round pretty far from each 9 other, which -- you know, have you ever noticed at a 10 party everybody hangs in the smallest place, which is 11 the kitchen, because people communicate better when 12 they're in a little closer proximity of each other. 13 And that's true for meetings, as well. 14 If the room is too large or you're too far from each 15 other, it really doesn't contribute to a healthy 16 discussion. So for me, the keys are to be in somewhat 17 of a U so that you're looking at each other and to be 18 close enough to really make eye contact and to 19 communicate really well. 20 Whether you're faced on an angle or faced 21 this way, I'm not sure how that would affect your 22 communications. Billy seems to think that it would 23 affect it negatively was the impression I got. I don't 24 know if it would or not. 25 But any time you're set up where it's 0111 1 about other people looking at you rather than about 2 each other - -because it's really the BAC's meeting. 3 The public is invited because of the Open Meetings Act 4 and they're welcome to move to this side of the room if 5 they wanted to see Pete. Sorry, Pete. 6 I guess -- but I know it makes Pete feel 7 uncomfortable that his back is to them. But they are 8 choosing to sit behind Pete. So I'm assuming -- 9 MR. PAVLOVSKY: They could sit in the 10 parking lot and look through the window. Carol, let 11 me -- let me share this with you. 12 MR. ATKINS: Well, Pete, let me comment 13 on that. They can sit over there. 14 MR. PAVLOVSKY: I know. 15 MR. ATKINS: Okay. 16 MR. PAVLOVSKY: You can sit over here, 17 also. 18 MR. ATKINS: Yeah. 19 MR. PAVLOVSKY: Good. As far as the 20 discussions over the last almost three years, we've had 21 some great discussions on this committee. And we were 22 not in this configuration, you know. 23 As a facilitator, you move around a lot. 24 Okay? You never sit in the same spot with your back to 25 the -- to the audience, so to speak. 0112 1 MS. LAUDER: True. 2 MR. PAVLOVSKY: Very uncomfortable. 3 MS. ROGERS: I'm not sitting with my back 4 to the audience, but it would be my opinion we would 5 probably feel more comfortable if no one in our group 6 had to sit with their back to the audience. 7 MR. PAVLOVSKY: Yeah. 8 MS. ROGERS: So the more comfortable we 9 feel, the better. 10 MR. PAVLOVSKY: I feel like people 11 sitting back here are -- 12 MS. LAUDER: And I'm -- like I said, I 13 don't have an opinion about the shift of it. I'm just 14 encouraging the U shape. 15 CHAIR TAYLOR: Okay. So it is -- 16 MS. LAUDER: The setting is not -- I 17 don't -- I don't have a strong view against that. 18 CHAIR TAYLOR: Okay. So the pleasure of 19 the committee would be to shift the circle this way and 20 see how it works for the next meeting; is that correct? 21 MR. PAVLOVSKY: Yes. 22 MR. WHITTINGTON: Well, the main thing is 23 the public is involved. I mean -- 24 MS. LAUDER: Sure. 25 MR. WHITTINGTON: We ought to be able to 0113 1 be seen well by the public. And that's what we're 2 talking about, the public, bingo halls and public, 3 people being involved with the BAC so we come up with 4 ideas. But they are directly involved. 5 I mean, it's not like they're shut out. 6 I mean, they're -- they have an opportunity to talk and 7 speak. And I just feel that eye-to-eye contact, the 8 way we were, was a lot better than like we are now 9 because I can't see nobody through Pete. 10 If Billy sat over there, I still can't 11 see nobody. I mean, that's the truth. I like to look 12 at people face to face. 13 CHAIR TAYLOR: Okay. Okay. So for the 14 next meeting, we'll shift it and see what happens for 15 the next meeting. 16 MS. LAUDER: Do realize, when you shift 17 it, whoever is sitting on this side will still have 18 their back to people that choose to sit over there if 19 the room is full. I mean, I just... 20 MS. JOSEPH: Sandra Joseph. I realize 21 you may have already decided, but I was going to 22 suggest perhaps the seating could be arranged so that 23 the public was sitting over here. Leave the 24 configuration like this, but you could try setting the 25 chairs up so this is where the public sits. 0114 1 CHAIR TAYLOR: It looks like here we 2 would have to change just a couple of desks, right, 3 just shift them, because -- would be a lot easier than 4 moving all the chairs. 5 So let's just try to shift for the next 6 meeting. 7 MR. WHITTINGTON: What if we're talking 8 about a big meeting like we had on the 20th, when 9 people were standing up high, can those people -- 10 MS. JOSEPH: No. They couldn't in that 11 case. I'm talking about at your normal meeting. 12 CHAIR TAYLOR: We plan to have our 13 meetings be well-attended in the future. We're going 14 to be a very productive committee. 15 MS. JOSEPH: Never mind. 16 CHAIR TAYLOR: And no one will want to 17 miss these meetings. 18 MS. LAUDER: Okay. So in summary, you 19 have asked me to attend your meetings? 20 MR. MOORE: I'm confused. 21 MS. LAUDER: Yeah. Me, too. 22 MR. MOORE: Do we have this choice? 23 MS. LAUDER: Yes. Yes. 24 MR. MOORE: Okay. You're on staff here, 25 so -- 0115 1 MS. LAUDER: No. 2 MR. MOORE: -- the price tag on this 3 is -- 4 MS. LAUDER: No. That's a real important 5 clarification. 6 MR. MOORE: Okay. 7 MS. LAUDER: I do not work for the 8 Lottery Commission. I'm not here as an advocate for 9 the Lottery Commission. I'm here as an independent 10 consultant to anyone involved in bingo, whether it be 11 industry in this particular meeting, if it's during the 12 meeting, or to the BAC, to the commissioners and to 13 Billy totally independent. 14 I do not get involved in content 15 discussions. I will never tell you that I think you 16 should extend the hours of bingo. A facilitator never 17 gets involved in the content of the discussion. They 18 are purely there to assist with the process that you 19 use to make decisions or to problem-solve. 20 The other thing that's important for 21 everyone to know is that no one is having to pay me 22 because I'm a state employee on state time. So my 23 services are coming to you at quite a discount over 24 what I charge as a consultant as a facilitator in the 25 private industry. 0116 1 So it's important for people to know that 2 I'm free. You know, there's no charge. Bingo -- 3 lottery is not having to pay for my services. So does 4 that clarify? 5 MR. MOORE: Yeah. I was just curious 6 because, you know, everybody is very cost-conscious. 7 And I was just surprised that it's being left in our 8 hands to decide if we're going to have a facilitator. 9 MS. LAUDER: Well, that -- 10 MR. MOORE: Honestly. 11 MS. LAUDER: Well, as you heard the 12 chairman say, he was encouraging you, the way I took 13 it, to use my services as a facilitator in your 14 meetings. 15 But he and I discussed that at length. 16 And we talked about the fact that forced facilitation 17 is not effective, nor would I engage in doing 18 facilitation if it were forced upon people. It needs 19 to be a free and informed choice, which is what I 20 would -- which is a value that I have as a facilitator. 21 And so it is the BAC's committee and it 22 is your decision about how you might want to use my 23 services. The chairman just wanted to make sure I was 24 available and I wanted to make sure you knew that I was 25 available. 0117 1 Does that answer your question? 2 MR. MOORE: No. That does answer, yes. 3 MR. WHITTINGTON: So the best thing -- we 4 are deciding that she's going to be at the meetings but 5 she has -- going to facilitate the summary of the 6 meetings, not during the meeting? Is that what we're 7 talking about? 8 MS. ROGERS: I think Suzanne and I had 9 discussed that after -- after every item, there's a 10 public comment. And so if she saw that we were not 11 focused on that comment or did not spell out how we're 12 going to address that problem or that, she would come 13 up during the public comment. 14 MR. WHITTINGTON: Why can't that be done 15 at the end? That would make -- she could summarize -- 16 for her to facilitate the summary of every meeting. 17 MS. LAUDER: My -- my response to that, 18 Larry, would -- the reason that I thought you would add 19 the comment to the committee agenda is I might come up 20 and say -- and tell me if this is possible. 21 I might say, you know, y'all just had a 22 terrific discussion on X, Y and Z but I didn't get any 23 outcomes from the discussion. Who's going to do what 24 and when are they going to do it and can we get that 25 documented? 0118 1 And then you would have an opportunity to 2 go back to that. Is that right? Can you go back to it 3 once there's public comment or is the discussion ended? 4 MR. ATKINS: No, it's -- yeah. If it's 5 on the agenda, it can be -- 6 MS. LAUDER: So Larry, that's how I would 7 envision is I would have an opportunity to remind you 8 of some of the basics that you sound like you want to 9 engage in. 10 CHAIR TAYLOR: That's absolutely what I 11 -- you said it. She said exactly my vision of -- 12 MR. WHITTINGTON: Okay. 13 CHAIR TAYLOR: -- what I thought you 14 could help us with doing. 15 MS. LAUDER: Okay. I am more than 16 willing to work with my schedule at my office and see 17 if I can do that. And I think that I can. 18 MR. MOORE: Well, I want to go back, 19 because we've had previous meetings where somebody's 20 come up during public comment, made their comment, and 21 then we've been told that we cannot engage like we're 22 doing right now with this individual. 23 CHAIR TAYLOR: Because it was an item 24 that wasn't -- 25 MR. MOORE: And it wasn't you, Sandy. It 0119 1 was whoever was sitting in on the meeting. But I know 2 we've been told that this is public comment period, you 3 can't respond. Am I wrong? 4 MR. ATKINS: Well -- 5 MS. JOSEPH: I believe you can ask 6 questions if the commenter raises questions. 7 MR. ATKINS: You can ask them. Also, 8 Danny, I think it's been very specific to the fact that 9 someone has come up during public comment and commented 10 on something that wasn't anywhere on the agenda. Even 11 if we are under public comment now, the discussion 12 relates specifically to item eight. 13 MR. MOORE: Okay. 14 MR. ATKINS: That's on the agenda. 15 MR. MOORE: Okay. 16 MR. ATKINS: So, I mean, if necessary, 17 the committee can very easily move from public comment 18 back to item eight. But if Carol -- let me give you an 19 example. 20 If Carol were up there now and she were 21 making public comment on the price of bingo cards in 22 Corpus Christi, you could not have a discussion and a 23 deliberation amongst yourselves on the price of bingo 24 cards in Corpus Christi because that's not on the 25 agenda. 0120 1 MR. MOORE: Okay. That's great. Thanks. 2 MS. LAUDER: So that's the distinction? 3 Okay. Good. Good question, Danny. Okay. I think I 4 understand what you've asked me. And if you decide on 5 anything else, someone let me know. Thank you. 6 CHAIR TAYLOR: Thank you so much. 7 MR. MOORE: Thanks, Carol. 8 CHAIR TAYLOR: Is there any other public 9 comment? 10 AGENDA ITEM NO. 11 11 CHAIR TAYLOR: Item number 11, 12 consideration of, and possible action, on future Bingo 13 Advisory Committee meeting dates and/or items to be 14 considered for future meetings. 15 Let's hit the dates first. Pete, you 16 have the calendar. 17 MR. PAVLOVSKY: Tell me a date. 18 CHAIR TAYLOR: Tell us some dates. 19 MR. WHITTINGTON: The 6th, 7th or 8th of 20 February. 21 CHAIR TAYLOR: Let's get to the month 22 first. What month are we looking at? 23 MS. ROGERS: Well, considering that we 24 need to put together a work plan and do that and kind 25 of form that up and say that's what we need to do, we 0121 1 don't want to take too long, correct? 2 CHAIR TAYLOR: Right. We've also got the 3 Legislature -- 4 MS. ROGERS: -- in session, so we need 5 to -- 6 CHAIR TAYLOR: -- and the legislative 7 stuff that we might want to meet on. 8 MS. ROGERS: Exactly. 9 MR. ATKINS: I'm thinking you have at 10 least one work group that's scheduled to meet on 11 February 15th. So I would think, at a minimum, you 12 would want to have that work group have the opportunity 13 to meet, I guess come up with recommendations, and to 14 bring before the full BAC some time after that. 15 MS. ROGERS: Maybe we should move our 16 work group date up a little bit. Is that possible? 17 CHAIR TAYLOR: What do you think, Danny, 18 about legislative meeting? 19 MR. MOORE: I -- I think end of March, 20 very tail end of March. I -- that's just my opinion. 21 I think we need two months between meetings for the 22 work groups to do what they need to do. Nothing 23 happens as quick as we hope it to happen. 24 MR. PAVLOVSKY: How about March 9, early 25 March? 0122 1 CHAIR TAYLOR: How does that work with 2 everybody, March 9th? 3 MS. ROGERS: That's fine. 4 CHAIR TAYLOR: So tentatively March 9th, 5 10 o'clock? 6 MS. ROGERS: Uh-huh. 7 MR. MOORE: Wednesday? 8 CHAIR TAYLOR: Agenda items? Anything 9 that is not -- that we don't know we're going to 10 have -- some of these are ongoing agenda items that we 11 have each time. Obviously, we'll have the -- 12 hopefully, we'll have a annual report for the committee 13 to discuss and approve. 14 And hopefully we'll have a work plan for 15 the next year also that we can discuss and approve to 16 pass on to the commissioners. 17 If there's any other agenda items that 18 anybody has right now that you can think of -- 19 MR. PAVLOVSKY: What about the 20 nominations? 21 MS. ROGERS: We'll have nomination of 22 names. We'll have names. 23 CHAIR TAYLOR: Anything else? 24 MR. ATKINS: The administrative penalty 25 guideline and expedited administrative penalty rule. 0123 1 MR. SANDERSON: May I offer an agenda 2 item? 3 CHAIR TAYLOR: Yes, sir. 4 MR. SANDERSON: First quarter 5 statistics -- I mean, it will actually be the fourth 6 quarter of 2004. And also, the last day to file bills 7 is March 11th, just so you'll know that when you're 8 looking at finding a date. 9 Y'all chose the 9th, right? 10 MR. MOORE: We should make it the 16th 11 then. 12 MS. ROGERS: That's spring break. Sorry. 13 I have children. 14 MR. MOORE: No. That's fine. 15 CHAIR TAYLOR: I'm sorry, Carol. 16 MS. LAUDER: Can I offer an agenda item? 17 CHAIR TAYLOR: Sure. 18 MS. LAUDER: That you would review the 19 goals that you began on December 20th and add to and 20 clarify some outcomes from those goals. And the other 21 recommendation for an agenda item would be to review 22 your to-do list and the status of each of your items on 23 your to-do list. Thank you. 24 MR. ATKINS: Let me ask a question about 25 that, Carol, because in my mind the work plan becomes 0124 1 that to-do list. 2 CHAIR TAYLOR: I was thinking the same 3 thing as she was speaking. 4 MS. LAUDER: And what -- how does your 5 work plan surface in your meetings, in terms of 6 discussion? If you wouldn't mind just updating me... 7 CHAIR TAYLOR: Usually through the agenda 8 items. 9 MS. LAUDER: Individually? 10 CHAIR TAYLOR: Yes. 11 MR. ATKINS: Essentially, the work plan 12 becomes the agenda. 13 MS. LAUDER: Okay. So each agenda item 14 reflects your to-do list? 15 MR. ATKINS: Uh-huh. 16 MS. LAUDER: Thank you. 17 CHAIR TAYLOR: Danny is reflecting that 18 we might have picked a -- we might want to have our 19 meeting a little bit later in March. If anybody -- do 20 you want to have that discussion? 21 MR. MOORE: I don't know. I'm just 22 curious why we're having one in five weeks. Is there 23 anything pressing? I'm not sure. I just -- it seems 24 awful quick for us. 25 We don't normally meet more than every 0125 1 two to three months and now we're going to throw one in 2 in five weeks, basically. I don't quite understand 3 why. 4 MS. ROGERS: So you're suggesting we wait 5 until, for instance, March 25th, the last of March? 6 MR. MOORE: Somewhere around there, yeah. 7 That's just -- just from past experience. 8 MS. ROGERS: That's fine. 9 MR. PAVLOVSKY: I didn't realize it was 10 that quick. 11 MR. MOORE: It is. It's -- we're at the 12 end of January. 13 MR. PAVLOVSKY: How about March 30th? 14 MS. ROGERS: Either one is fine. 15 MR. MOORE: Is there commissioner 16 meetings planned -- the next one planned yet? 17 MR. ATKINS: Not that I'm aware of. 18 MR. MOORE: Okay. I don't know, I'm 19 just -- just talking from past experience. 20 MR. PAVLOVSKY: Good point. 21 MR. MOORE: I was thinking the last -- 22 the 30th or something of March, I've got a conflict. 23 The bingo show is the 22nd through the 24th of March. 24 And then spring break, I think, falls in those two 25 middle weeks. For anybody that has kids, that becomes 0126 1 an issue. I know that. 2 MS. ROGERS: That week in between, would 3 that be better? 4 CHAIR TAYLOR: Okay. So if we move it to 5 March 30th, can -- does that meet everybody's -- 6 MR. MOORE: Is that a Wednesday, Pete? 7 MR. PAVLOVSKY: Yes. 8 CHAIR TAYLOR: Okay. Then we'll go ahead 9 and tentatively schedule it for March 30th, 10 o'clock. 10 Any other items that you can think about 11 that need to be added to the agenda or that you'd like 12 to see on the agenda, get with us. Let us know. You 13 can send that to Billy or myself and we can add that. 14 Hopefully, the work group will be adding items to the 15 agenda through this next work plan. 16 Anything else? 17 MR. MANIO: Yeah. The operations manual, 18 we don't have any indication from -- as to when it 19 might come out of legal. But we'll -- you know, I'll 20 check with Marshall from time to time. And if 21 appropriate, then we can include it in the next agenda. 22 CHAIR TAYLOR: Okay. And is that it? 23 Yes, sir? 24 MR. DE GLOPPER: Madame Chairman, my 25 first meeting at all -- 0127 1 CHAIR TAYLOR: Could you identify 2 yourself, sir? 3 MR. DE GLOPPER: Yes, sir. Yes, ma'am. 4 I will. Yes, ma'am. My name is Jim de Glopper. I 5 represent the Clements Boys and Girls Club in Killeen. 6 I don't know that this is appropriate at all, but I'd 7 like to put a face on what you're all doing here today 8 and I think with the folks, too, if I can indulge just 9 for a couple of minutes to tell you about what we do, 10 how we do it. 11 We are a Boys and Girls Club in Killeen. 12 We have about five thousand members. We've been in 13 existence since 1965. We operate four facilities and 14 provide a safe place for boys and girls to learn and 15 grow, ongoing relationships with caring adults, 16 life-enhancing programs in care, development, 17 experience, hope and opportunity. 18 We provide a safe place for kids to be 19 after school and during the summertime. We're only 20 closed on Sundays. We have a lot of different 21 activities and programs at the clubs. And I just want 22 to say thank you because we are able to accomplish what 23 we're doing, to a large part, from charitable bingo. 24 And I just want to say thank you. And I 25 know that this -- what this committee is doing and 0128 1 everybody else in this room is to expand on charitable 2 bingo in the state of Texas so that I can help more 3 kids stay off of drugs, so I can help more kids stay 4 away from gangs, give them a safe place so they can be 5 nurtured. 6 We have -- some of our members are afraid 7 to go home. The only safe places in their whole life 8 is school and our club. And I don't think we're 9 unique. We're -- there's situations like that all 10 around the state, all around the country. 11 So on behalf -- and I'll probably get 12 yelled at for this later from my board and my boss -- I 13 want to thank you so much for allowing us to provide an 14 opportunity for the kids in our community. 15 Thank you, ma'am. 16 CHAIR TAYLOR: Thank you. We appreciate 17 you coming up and talking to us. Any other public 18 comment? 19 AGENDA ITEM NO. 12 20 CHAIR TAYLOR: If not, it's 12:29, and 21 this meeting is adjourned. 22 (Meeting adjourned at 12:29 p.m.) 23 24 25 0129 1 CHANGES 2 PAGE LINE CHANGE REASON 3 _______________________________________________________ 4 _______________________________________________________ 5 _______________________________________________________ 6 _______________________________________________________ 7 _______________________________________________________ 8 _______________________________________________________ 9 _______________________________________________________ 10 _______________________________________________________ 11 _______________________________________________________ 12 _______________________________________________________ 13 _______________________________________________________ 14 _______________________________________________________ 15 _______________________________________________________ 16 _______________________________________________________ 17 _______________________________________________________ 18 _______________________________________________________ 19 _______________________________________________________ 20 _______________________________________________________ 21 _______________________________________________________ 22 _______________________________________________________ 23 _______________________________________________________ 24 _______________________________________________________ 25 0130 1 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATION 2 3 STATE OF TEXAS ) 4 COUNTY OF TRAVIS ) 5 6 I, David Bateman, RPR, Certified Shorthand 7 Reporter for the State of Texas, do hereby certify that 8 the above-captioned matter came on for hearing before 9 the BINGO ADVISORY COMMITTEE as hereinbefore set out, 10 that I did, in shorthand, report said proceedings, and 11 that the above and foregoing typewritten pages contain 12 a full, true, and correct computer-aided transcription 13 of my shorthand notes taken on said occasion. 14 15 Witness my hand on this the 2nd day of 16 February, 2005. 17 18 19 _________________________________ David Bateman, RPR, CSR #7578 20 Expiration Date: 12-31-05 1801 North Lamar Boulevard 21 Mezzanine Level Austin, Texas 78701 22 (512) 474-4363 23 24 25 JOB NO. 050126dpb