1 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 2 BEFORE THE 3 BINGO ADVISORY COMMITTEE 4 (TEXAS LOTTERY COMMISSION) 5 AUSTIN, TEXAS 6 QUARTERLY MEETING OF THE § BINGO ADVISORY COMMITTEE § 7 WEDNESDAY, JULY 28, 2010 § 8 9 COMMITTEE MEETING 10 WEDNESDAY, JULY 28, 2010 11 12 BE IT REMEMBERED THAT on Wednesday, the 28th 13 day of July 2010, the Bingo Advisory Committee meeting 14 was held from 10:09 a.m. to 11:47 a.m., at the Offices 15 of the Texas Lottery Commission, 611 East 6th Street, 16 Austin, Texas 78701, before KIMBERLY ROGERS, Chair. The 17 following proceedings were reported via machine 18 shorthand by Lorrie A. Schnoor, a Certified Shorthand 19 Reporter of the State of Texas, and the following 20 proceedings were had: 21 22 23 24 25 2 1 APPEARANCES 2 BINGO ADVISORY COMMITTEE: 3 Ms. Kimberly Rogers, Chair 4 Mr. Earl Silver, Vice Chair Mr. Emile S. Bourgoyne 5 Mr. Francis M. Ciancarelli Ms. Pat Gifford (Not present) 6 Ms. Markey Ford Beilue' Mr. Thomas "Tom" Weekley 7 Mr. Joe Williams Ms. Melissa Young 8 CHARITABLE BINGO OPERATIONS DIVISION DIRECTOR: 9 Mr. Philip Sanderson 10 TEXAS LOTTERY COMMISSION: 11 Commissioner David J. Schenck 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 TABLE OF CONTENTS 2 PAGE 3 AGENDA ITEM NO. 1 - The Bingo Advisory Committee will call the meeting to order.......... 5 4 AGENDA ITEM NO. 2 - Consideration of 5 and possible discussion and/or action on the minutes of the April 28, 2010 Bingo 6 Advisory Committee meeting........................ 5 7 AGENDA ITEM NO. 3 - Report, possible discussion and/or action on the request for a Bingo Advisory 8 Committee study and report on the impact of legal and illegal amusement machines on bingo........... 6 9 AGENDA ITEM NO. 4 - Consideration of and possible 10 discussion and/or action on the Bingo Advisory Committee FY10 work plan, including a report 11 to the Commissioners on the accomplishments of the FY10 Work Plan officers....................... 42 12 AGENDA ITEM NO. 5 - Consideration of and possible 13 discussion and/or action on the Bingo Advisory Committee FY11 Work Plan.......................... 43 14 AGENDA ITEM NO. 6 - Report and possible 15 discussion and/or action on the workgroup - Nominations....................................... 45 16 AGENDA ITEM NO. 7 - Report and possible 17 discussion and/or action on the workgroup - Prize Board Management............................ 51 18 AGENDA ITEM NO. 8 - Consideration of and possible 19 action on modification of the Charitable Bingo Operations Division's Bingo Registry search engine 20 to provide an enhancement to include the listing of both active and inactive workers sorted by 21 authorized organization.......................... 65 22 AGENDA ITEM NO. 9 - Public Comment................ 76 23 24 25 4 1 TABLE OF CONTENTS (continued) 2 PAGE 3 AGENDA ITEM NO. 10 - Consideration of and possible action on future Bingo Advisory Committee meeting 4 dates and/or items to be considered for future meetings.......................................... 79 5 AGENDA ITEM NO. 11 - Adjournment.................. 84 6 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE............................ 86 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 5 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 WEDNESDAY, JULY 28, 2010 3 (10:09 a.m.) 4 AGENDA ITEM NO. 1 5 MS. ROGERS: Good morning, ladies and 6 gentlemen. It is now 10:12. We will call this meeting 7 to order. All of the -- our BAC members are present. 8 We would like to say good morning and welcome to 9 Commissioner Schenck for joining us. 10 Thank you, sir. 11 COMM. SCHENCK: Thank you. 12 AGENDA ITEM NO. 2 13 MS. ROGERS: Our first item is No. 2, 14 "Consideration of and possible discussion and/or action 15 on the minutes of the April 28th, 2010 Bingo Advisory 16 Committee meeting." 17 I went over these and did not find any 18 problems with them. Do I have a vote to have these put 19 in as they stand online? 20 MS. BEILUE: I make that motion. 21 MS. ROGERS: Motion. Thank you. All 22 those in favor -- a second? 23 MR. BOURGOYNE: Second. 24 MS. ROGERS: Thank you, sir, Emile. 25 All those in favor? 6 1 (All those in favor of the motion so 2 responded) 3 MS. ROGERS: We have a unanimous vote. 4 They will be posted as they are online. 5 AGENDA ITEM NO. 3 6 MS. ROGERS: No. 3, "Report, possible 7 discussion and/or action on the request for a Bingo 8 Advisory Committee study and report on the impact of 9 legal and illegal amusement machines on bingo." 10 Mr. Francis Ciancarelli? 11 MR. CIANCARELLI: Yes, good morning, madam 12 chair. 13 What I'd like to do is we've kind of had 14 an interesting workgroup here and quite a task before 15 us, and we really didn't get past the proposal state. 16 And in the workbook, under Tab 3, is a -- kind of a 17 joint letter from the workgroup members that worked with 18 me directly, and then there's also some sheets there 19 that -- basically stuff that I had put together to try 20 to assemble a direction proposal. 21 So with that, I'd like to go ahead and 22 read my personal statement. After my statement, I'd 23 like to call upon each of the BAC members or any of the 24 public members of our committee who would like to make a 25 statement as far as the impact study itself. So with 7 1 that, I'll read this for the record, and you have a copy 2 of it. 3 The National Gambling Impact Study, 4 Commission Act, Public Law 104-169, 104th Congress 5 created the 'National Gambling Impact and Policy 6 Commission' which was enacted by the State, Senate, and 7 the House of Representatives of the United States of 8 America. This established a Commission; let's think of 9 it as a workgroup in our particular Texas Charitable 10 Bingo scenario. It was enacted by the legislative 11 rules, provided certain resources which were conveyed to 12 the Commission. As an example of some of the 13 Commission's connivances: They were given 14 appropriations; they were allowed to have contracts for 15 research; they had some judicial support to obtain 16 testimony; and procurement of temporary and intermittent 17 services as they needed. 18 But the scope of the Commission was to 19 conduct a comprehensive, legal, and factual study of the 20 social and economic impacts of gambling in the United 21 States. Our Texas Charitable Bingo Impact Study 22 workgroup was asked to study the illegal and legal 23 operations of 8-liners on the associated impact on Texas 24 Charitable Bingo. 25 As chair for this workgroup, I believe we 8 1 were faced with the daunting odds to produce a 2 certifiable -- repeat that -- certifiable impact study. 3 What we offer and present today as volunteers called to 4 service is an assessment of some -- assessment of some 5 facts but mostly opinions of the Impact of Amusement 6 Machines, 8-liners and sweepstake machines, on the play 7 of Texas charitable bingo. What the Charitable Bingo 8 Operation Division and the Texas Lottery Commissioners 9 should not lose sight of is that this workgroup is 10 comprised of volunteers appointed to service who did not 11 have the support necessary to present a complete impact 12 study. 13 I would like to thank the Texas Lottery 14 Commissioners and the Charitable Bingo Operations 15 Division for challenging each of us with this task as I, 16 for one, learned a great deal more about bingo and 17 amusement machines. I would also like to state that for 18 me, Texas Charitable Bingo is all about the charities to 19 maintain or increase the disbursements so that each 20 participating authorized organization in carrying on 21 their charitable work to benefit Texans in our great 22 State of Texas. Respectfully, Francis Ciancarelli. 23 So that is my statement in addition to the 24 summation letter that's in the notebook. And I'd like 25 to go ahead and just go around the table, if we may, and 9 1 solicit members' input and then public members' input. 2 Melissa, would you like to start? 3 MS. YOUNG: I don't have any statement to 4 share on this. 5 MS. ROGERS: Francis, may I add one thing 6 right quick? Would you like to present the portion of 7 this and then let everyone make comments, so maybe they 8 have something to comment about what's in the book? 9 Would that be easier? 10 MR. CIANCARELLI: Fine with me, yes. No 11 problem. 12 MS. ROGERS: Would that be okay? 13 Would you like to make a statement, 14 Mr. Silver? 15 MR. SILVER: Is Francis going to do it? 16 MS. ROGERS: He should. 17 MR. CIANCARELLI: Okay. I'll run through 18 what's -- the rest of the pages that are in there. I'd 19 like to point out that what's in the notebook is only a 20 portion of the materials that were collected; assembled 21 many by me, some by others, and so it's a collection, 22 again, of information. 23 We started out with the impact of 24 amusement machines, 8-liners and sweepstakes machines, 25 on the play of Charitable Bingo. And the proposal was 10 1 going to have these 8 tabs, as you can see. Some of 2 them are completely blank; some have been started. And 3 I'd say, and honestly, we didn't complete any of them 4 other than maybe Tab 8 and who was the members of the 5 workgroup. 6 So after the index, we come across the 7 advisory committee which was kind of a synopsis of what 8 we were trying to do; again, written to entice everyone 9 of the committee to participate and put thought into it 10 and give thought to the workgroup committee. So I'm not 11 going to read any one of these pages, but I'm available 12 for questions at any time if someone has a question. 13 Any questions on this page? 14 (No response) 15 MR. CIANCARELLI: At some point in time, 16 you collect data and you have to do something with it, 17 and so I lamented on that for a long time. How are we 18 going to do this? And the only thing I could come up 19 with was we've got to take existing data to provide 20 information in the three-month window. 21 So I tried to identify some indicators of 22 interest, is what I called them for myself, and this 23 would have been information that I had hoped that would 24 be in the databases of the Operations Division. Again, 25 we had -- would figure out some mathematical equations 11 1 and all that, but I think it all became dependent on 2 where you saw the change. 3 And what I hear from people -- so let's 4 call that an assessment -- is that when illegal gambling 5 impacts the bingo hall. There's a dramatic change in 6 revenues. So if we could determine who had 8-liners 7 near them, we could kind of put a scenario together 8 where we might see that and kind of prove that, that it 9 was having an effect. We didn't get that far. I think 10 it still could be done that way. 11 And one of my approaches and thoughts was, 12 let's look at the state of Texas in the regional areas 13 so that we could go in and say: Do we have a bigger 14 problem in the northeast or the west or whatever? So we 15 were -- I was thinking we could track maybe by the 16 regions. 17 Any questions? 18 (No response) 19 MR. CIANCARELLI: Okay. The next tab in 20 your binder should be the -- 21 MR. BOURGOYNE: Survey. 22 MR. CIANCARELLI: -- survey, and the 23 survey was a mechanism to get information. And I know a 24 couple of the committee people and I had some 25 discussions about: What were we trying to get at? Was 12 1 it really a public relation tool? What was it? And I 2 was hoping to stimulate input, and out of that input, it 3 might lead us to some direction that would be meaningful 4 and also make people aware of Charitable Bingo. And so 5 we went through five revisions on this survey, and here 6 it sits. 7 The survey has to be funded because it 8 does cost money to develop this on the SurveyMonkey. It 9 sounds like a strange name, but the State of Texas is 10 already utilizing it in the Department of Aging related 11 to veterans. But it was giving us a way to go out and 12 try to ask for information. And they're -- in here, 13 there's some who we would ask for that information. 14 But on the second page and if you see the 15 graphics up there on the screen, this is where I was 16 trying to tie in the bingo hall versus the 8-liner 17 operations. And, again, legal or illegal, at this 18 point, I was trying to make no distinction, just find 19 out where they were. And so we came up with -- 20 stand-alone bingo hall, that means they just play bingo. 21 A co-located bingo hall -- and we have several of those, 22 but I don't know where all of them are -- but this is 23 where they're conducting bingo and also operating legal 24 amusement machines. And then the third scenario might 25 be where you have a bingo hall and within a five-mile 13 1 radius, there could have been a game room of 8-liners, 2 or maybe beyond that five miles; again, trying to come 3 up with some tools to take the data that existed, 4 manipulate it, and spit something out that the 5 Commissioners could use. 6 And it just goes through some, you know, 7 questions again: Do you think it's a positive impact? 8 Negative impact? And you hope with some open questions 9 stuck in there, that you might generate some 10 information; but it could be hearsay information. It 11 wouldn't necessarily be factual. 12 And if we were successful and had 10,000 13 people take this survey -- there is a charge per survey 14 to do that -- I still think it's a tool that we might 15 want to look at following up on. You know, could be 16 from cards in the bingo halls because those people 17 probably know where game rooms are outside the bingo 18 halls to the people that operate as distributors and 19 manufacturers of charities, all of the people. 20 And, again, all this information was -- 21 all this information was recorded, sorted, and 22 manipulated into reports so the reports would have been 23 available at our discretion or at the Bingo Operations 24 Division to look at the data to see what was happening. 25 So -- and you also could -- if people told you from 14 1 where they were, you know, you have an idea, again, into 2 what region or what county that this may happen. 3 For the sake of paper and printing and all 4 that, I withdrew about 70 pages from the original 5 proposal which were sorts of existing information from 6 the bingo website which might allow BAC members and our 7 public members to go in there and look at things in a 8 different way to come up and align with the regions of 9 the service centers. This is all available information. 10 The next page that's in your workbook that 11 I skipped to, I think, that has some data was just 12 trying to say who we were and what we were trying to do 13 and who was -- and the charities, who were charity 14 lessors, who were commercial lessors, who were general 15 public and manufacturers/distributors. And the reason I 16 was doing that is that -- wanted to come up with like a 17 panel for each of those -- each of those defined groups. 18 So like the charities, we could ask them, "Well, go out 19 and talk to two bingo halls outside of your area of 20 knowledge." In other words, like I live in Mission. I 21 know Mission, Texas, and a couple there; so I visited 22 Brownsville, and I visited some other places. So we 23 looked for that information. 24 There was also information in -- where we 25 came up with resources and things that help you 15 1 understand what is terminology and helped with 2 understanding 8-liners and how they apply and how they 3 are read. So, again, that's provided in there. This is 4 not in your handbook, but I put up the full proposal, 5 which, again, was not accepted. 6 I'd like to tell a couple personal stories 7 which I think are relevant. When I was a little 8 younger, I was in the Air Force, and I was stationed in 9 Biloxi, Mississippi, at like 18 years old. I remember 10 walking into a bus station because I had to use the 11 restroom, and they had pinball machines. And I said, 12 "Oh, wow. I'm a kid from New Jersey. I know how to 13 play those pinball machines." So I spent about an hour 14 on that pinball machine, and I racked up 243 credits. 15 And I finally went to the guy who was in there, and I 16 said, "I'm going to leave these games for somebody 17 else." I said, "I can't" -- you know, "I'm tired of 18 playing." He said, "Well, here. Here's your money." 19 So that's 1966, and that's my first exposure to 20 amusement machines. 21 The other day, I was coming back from 22 little league baseball tournament in Houston to Mission, 23 driving and listening to the old-time radio stories, and 24 people on the committee have got a segment of this radio 25 show. But it was December 19th -- December 16th, 1948, 16 1 James Cagney. It was called "Love's Lovely 2 Counterfeit," and it's a nice little story. But in the 3 middle of the story is about politics and stuff, and 4 this guy takes over the criminal aspects, gets one guy 5 in and takes over the criminal aspect. And the whole 6 story line was amusement machines where -- bingo 7 machines and -- bingos and certificates versus, you 8 know, paying cash. And I was thinking, "Wow, this is 9 unbelievable. Here it is in 1948, they're talking about 10 it." 11 When I was doing this research, I went 12 back in time in the information that I could find on the 13 Internet, and I found that commissioners back as far as 14 2002 were talking about the same problems that we're 15 talking about today. So I stopped looking back any 16 further. So this is not a new problem. It's been 17 around. 18 Any questions on -- not necessarily the 19 personal stories, but anything else? 20 (No response) 21 MR. CIANCARELLI: Okay. Let me see what 22 else is in here. 23 The rest of the handout and notebook kind 24 of gives you some sense of how the information could be 25 sorted and generated to give you different forms of 17 1 analysis. 2 So that's basically it. We had some 3 communications. We had some discussions. We had 4 some -- people didn't have any input, and it's tough to 5 get your hand around. But I think you have to have some 6 sort of appropriations and some legislative assurance 7 that, you know, you come up with a legal and factual 8 because that's the thing you've got to be careful about. 9 I know when I visited Brownsville and I 10 got a kind invitation, like three days after we said at 11 this meeting I would be the chair, from Kevin Isbell; 12 and right in this parking lot was an 8-liner operation. 13 He said, "Well, they've already prosecuted it, but it 14 went back into business 8/1 or something." And I said, 15 "Wow." 16 And so we went in, looked at his 17 operation, talked about things, and they offered to take 18 me around their county and show me places. And I said, 19 "No, I don't want to go look because I can't do 20 anything." If I was going to ask somebody in that game 21 room, "How's your business?" I don't think they would 22 tell me. I might actually get in trouble. And not 23 trouble like with your mother; trouble like with 24 criminal. 25 (Laughter) 18 1 MR. CIANCARELLI: So I didn't pursue 2 that -- 3 MS. BEILUE: Or worse. 4 MR. CIANCARELLI: -- very well, and I 5 think I asked everybody on the committee, you know, 6 don't go visiting the game rooms and stuff. Just try to 7 find out where they are. 8 And so that, I think, is a fair summary of 9 how I got to where I was today with that personal 10 statement. Again, I'll ask does anyone have any 11 questions? 12 (No response) 13 MR. CIANCARELLI: Okay. So that -- 14 MS. ROGERS: I thank you, Francis, for 15 that. And I know you put a lot of time and effort into 16 this, and we appreciate that. 17 Before we move any further with the 18 questions and comments on that, I'd like to correct the 19 record that Pat Gifford is not present at the meeting, 20 please. Thank you. 21 Emile, if -- if you have a comment, 22 members, you're more than welcome to make one. If you 23 don't, no comment will be sufficient. 24 MR. BOURGOYNE: Again, I'd like to thank 25 Francis for all the hard work and time and effort he put 19 1 into it, and in particularly, the survey part of it. 2 While I do think that the survey would give us some good 3 public opinion information, I'm not sure that qualifies 4 as an economic impact study. But I would be very 5 interested in those opinions if -- and I'd like to see 6 us move forward with that if we could find the funds to 7 do that. 8 What we're talking about here is trying to 9 determine the scope from illegal to gray-area gaming to 10 legal and regulated gaming and how it impacts Charitable 11 Bingo in Texas. Well, the problem I had on the 12 committee is that it doesn't just impact Charitable 13 Bingo in Texas. It impacts the lottery; it impacts 14 theaters, service, workers tips; it impacts all other 15 entertainment dollars. So I'm not sure why we were -- 16 why this is -- we're the ones that have -- that need to 17 do this and -- because you're all talking a whole gamut 18 of things that illegal gaming impacts. 19 And then there's the whole area in between 20 legal and regulated and illegal. There's the area of 21 gaming that people think is -- some people think is 22 legal and participate and profit from it, and others 23 think it is illegal and it's typically tied up in the 24 courts for some period of time. 25 My personal opinion is that from 20 1 experience and for what we've learned through this 2 process is that if there's 8-liners involved in a 3 proximity but not associated with a Charitable Bingo 4 operation, it's probably negatively impacted it. If 5 there's 8-liner redemption machines connected to a bingo 6 operation where the redemptions is part of the product, 7 whether it's bingo paper, electronic numbers, or 8 pull-tabs or something, most of those people seem to 9 think -- or from what I've heard and read, seem to think 10 that there is positive impact from it. And that's about 11 as far as I think we can go with this with our 12 expertise. I'm not sure we can go much further than 13 that. That's all I'd like to say. 14 MS. ROGERS: Thank you, sir. Thank you. 15 Earl? 16 MR. SILVER: Well, Francis, you did a 17 great job on this task that we were directed to do from 18 the Commissioners. And I agree with Emile that it is a 19 huge endeavor, and it not only affects Charitable Bingo, 20 it affects the Lottery Commission; it affects movie 21 theaters, bowling alleys, anything with that 22 discretionary income that we're all fighting for that 23 same dollar. And, I mean, we took the task, and we did 24 the best we possibly could, in my opinion. 25 I have never done an impact study before, 21 1 and I've never done anything this huge. So it's a 2 little bit intimidating and daunting. And through 3 Francis's direction, we were able to gather some 4 information. But I think it's such an important issue 5 to the state and to the citizens, it needs to be done 6 through the legislature. 7 At a market conduct meeting, when this was 8 first brought up, I was I'm the chair of the Market 9 Conduct Committee, and this was first brought up in that 10 meeting. And I asked Phil if there's going to be a -- 11 "Is there a budget item for this?" And for some reason, 12 that got misconstrued as to say, "Well, the Bingo 13 Advisory Committee wants to get paid for this." Well, I 14 don't want to get paid for this. I mean, this is way 15 beyond my expertise on any type of study like this. 16 My thought behind this was to hire a 17 company who specializes in economic impact studies. To 18 have me do an impact study that is so important, it's 19 like asking Phil to represent my family in a tax audit. 20 I don't know if he's qualified. He could be, but he 21 would not be my first choice. I would want somebody 22 qualified. My dad always told me you want to have a 23 good doctor, a good lawyer, and a good CPA. That 24 normally keeps you out of trouble. Well, for something 25 this big, I don't think I would be the most qualified 22 1 person to do an impact study. 2 Now, on a personal note, illegal gambling 3 and illegal gaming does negatively affect bingo. In my 4 halls, in the two halls that I have, it negatively 5 affects it. Emile pointed out if there's a charitable 6 component, there's a positive effect to the charities, 7 and that's what bingo is. It's Charitable Bingo. There 8 has to be some charitable component. That's why in the 9 Administrative Rules Hearing for the House, on 10 January 8th, we were there representing Charitable 11 Bingo. If they allow gaming in Texas, there has to be a 12 charitable component, or all that we're talking about is 13 gone because bingo won't survive wide-open gaming. 14 There has to be a charitable component. And that's all 15 I want, is for my charities to succeed. Whatever is 16 legal that can help my charities, that's what I'm 17 looking for. 18 So, Francis, you did do a great job on 19 this gathering -- and like Emile said, I don't know if 20 it's an impact study. I would like to let somebody with 21 a little more knowledge look at this and maybe more 22 expertise look at this as far as to see what exactly an 23 impact study is and how it can be done on this budget, 24 which is zero, but I would like to see the legislature 25 pick this up because it could be a useful tool for them 23 1 when bringing gaming into Texas. It's something that 2 they may want to be interested in. 3 MR. BOURGOYNE: I think we would like for 4 them to do it, to see what impact -- what gaming they 5 brought into Texas would have effect on Charitable 6 Bingo. 7 MR. SILVER: Correct. 8 MS. ROGERS: Thank you. Thank you, 9 Mr. Silver. 10 And not just on bingo. You know, I would 11 think the legislatures and the Texas Lottery Commission 12 would be interested to see the effect it's going to have 13 on them. You know, is it going to affect the Texas 14 Lottery? I would venture to say it would. Not just 15 bingo. 16 I also, being part of this, when I 17 corresponded with Francis, who I will tell you-all 18 spent -- he spent a lot of hours at this, I can give my 19 opinion. 20 I spoke to other people in San Antonio. 21 They gave me their opinion, and so this cannot be what I 22 would consider a technical impact study because it's 23 opinions. Does illegal gaming hurt bingo? Well, yes. 24 You know, if it's done this way, if it's done that way, 25 then can it help bingo keep a charitable purpose in it? 24 1 Yes. You know, it's all opinions. 2 So I don't know if we can find -- like we 3 had a facilitator a while back. I don't know if that 4 can -- that sort of -- our Commissioners, I think, 5 approved us having a facilitator that helped us with our 6 meetings and things of that nature. Is there the 7 opportunity where the Commissioners can approve 8 something -- if they would like to see this go further, 9 that we hand this over to, as Earl and Emile have said, 10 someone who does this as a living. They know what 11 they're talking about when they do it. I would like to 12 see that done, and I would love to see the outcome of 13 it. So that's my opinion. 14 Joe? 15 MR. WILLIAMS: And it is a big, fuzzy 16 bear; that once you start reaching out to touch it, you 17 don't know exactly when you started touching it -- 18 (Laughter) 19 MR. WILLIAMS: -- but you know you're 20 close. And then -- but the bear knows that it's being 21 touched, and it might turn around and bite you. So you 22 have to be very careful in that as well. 23 And like everyone before has said, there 24 has to be the charity component involved, or it will be 25 detrimental to the charities and the services that we 25 1 all provide out in our communities which then those 2 services would shift away from charities providing it; 3 and it would shift to maybe a governmental entity that 4 would have to perform those tasks, and then that would 5 be a drain on the rest of the citizens directly. So 6 that's -- I really want the Lottery Commission 7 Commissioners and legislature to really consider any 8 gaming that's changed or allowed, would have to have 9 charitable involvement. 10 MR. CIANCARELLI: Madam chair? 11 MS. ROGERS: Thank you, sir. 12 Yes, sir? 13 MR. CIANCARELLI: With Joe's permission, 14 may I read your personal statement? 15 MR. WILLIAMS: Sure. 16 MR. CIANCARELLI: This is from Joe 17 Williams. My personal position statement: The effects 18 that possible augmented gambling in Texas would have on 19 Charitable Bingo is conjecture that has several 20 precursory markets for review nationwide. If the 21 structure of any new such gambling does not allow for 22 the inclusion of charities in its process, then 23 charities will suffer as funds are pulled away from 24 bingo and traditional commercial lessors operated bingo 25 halls are converted to primarily casinos. Charities 26 1 should be targeted as the venue for introduction of any 2 new games so as to continue charitable works which are 3 vital services to many Texas residents. State chaffers 4 would see anticipated increases via prize fees and taxes 5 on all related gaming content, and related industry 6 participants would see the same traditionally-expected 7 increases. Adding charities to the mix would allow the 8 state to effectively and positively spread gaming 9 revenues to a segment of society that would pay the 10 state and its residents dividends of untold magnitude 11 while at the same time providing a moral governance to 12 an industry that is -- that in the past has not had such 13 a moral connotation." And it's signed by Joe. 14 I thought that was very well stated, so 15 I'd like to enter that into the record. Thank you. 16 MS. ROGERS: Thank you. Very nice. 17 Mr. Weekley? 18 MR. WEEKLEY: It's been pretty well 19 established that these amusement machines do affect 20 directly the Charitable Bingo operations. 21 As a personal opinion, frankly, I'd like 22 to see legalization of them, thereby the state would 23 receive some sort of tax on that. But in a perfect 24 world, I'd like to see those amusement machines be 25 limited only to bingo halls, and I don't know if that 27 1 would come around. But the legislature, I think, should 2 be apprised of that opinion. 3 It is a -- it's so difficult to get data. 4 I tried to get data on the number of 8-liners that were 5 picked up in Hidalgo, Cameron, Willacy, and Starr; and 6 everybody just sort of clams up. You know, they just, 7 "I don't want to do it." They just don't want to give 8 it, and I don't have any authority to really do anything 9 other than request. 10 So for an individual or for this group to 11 do it, I think it's a daunting task. And a professional 12 organization might could do it and come up with data and 13 information that would be very useful in determining how 14 effective those machines are in the lessening of the 15 profit for the bingo halls and the charities that are 16 members of it. 17 I would like to see the legislature 18 actually legalize, and then in a perfect world, again, 19 I'd like so see it limited to bingo halls. 20 MS. ROGERS: Thank you. 21 Ms. Weaver? Markey. 22 MS. BEILUE: I've got so many notes. It 23 may take me a while to go through this. 24 First off, you said January 8th, and it 25 was actually July 8th we were in Austin. So just to 28 1 clarify for your records. 2 I agree with Earl 100 percent on the 3 market conduct study that -- I was a part of that 4 workgroup. I personally collected thousands and 5 thousands of pages on an impact study we were trying to 6 do, and, I mean, we just got overwhelmed with it. 7 It is something that I think would show 8 that our charities -- when game rooms are inside halls, 9 that charities make money from them. When they're ran 10 legally, they're a good thing. When they're in 11 competition with bingo, it's a bad thing. When they're 12 ran illegally, period, it's a bad thing for any kind of 13 gambling. 14 Texas does make a tax on 8-liner machines. 15 They have a seal that you have to have on there. Is 16 that still correct? 17 MR. SILVER: Yeah, I think it's a state 18 and county. 19 MS. BEILUE: A state and county. So 20 there's a county tax and there's a state tax on these 21 machines, so they are making some kind of revenue -- 22 MR. SILVER: Yeah, that's on -- 23 MS. BEILUE: -- on that. 24 MR. SILVER: I think that's on every 25 amusement machine. 29 1 MS. BEILUE: Exactly. But I meant that 2 sort of, I guess, with the fuzzy enabling act a long 3 time ago. 4 So anyway, game rooms and charities. 14, 5 16 years ago, we had 8-liners in our hall. We ran them 6 by the book that we saw from the fuzzy enabling act at 7 that time and how it was underneath it. Our charities 8 made money off of it. Then our DA took a stance and 9 decided there was so many illegal 8-liners ran where 10 people were paying cash that he decided in Brazos 11 County, there's no 8-liners any longer. So they came 12 out of our hall. Our charities lost money. 13 As far as an impact study, it's very plain 14 to see any time gambling -- any kind of additional 15 gambling is added to the state, whether it started with 16 horse tracks, dog tracks, whatever, and then we went 17 to -- we had bingo before there was a lottery, look at 18 the big money bingo had. Bingo's money is not that big 19 anymore. Lottery money is big. Okay? I mean, the 20 impact studies things like that. They're easy to see. 21 This is -- Francis now holds the record -- 22 it used to be my mother -- for filling up my computer at 23 night after I turned it off and opened it back up in the 24 morning. 25 (Laughter) 30 1 MS. BEILUE: So -- but he did a great job. 2 He -- evidently, I was overwhelmed trying to do it when 3 we were in that market conduct way faster than Francis 4 was because he did a fantastic job putting this 5 together. I think it is something that needs to be done 6 if we're going to continue to beat this year after year 7 after year after year, but it is something I think that 8 is out of our hands. 9 MS. ROGERS: I agree. Thank you. Thank 10 you. 11 Phil, would you -- do you have any 12 comments to make? 13 MR. SANDERSON: Move to public comments? 14 MS. ROGERS: Sure. 15 Public comments at this time? 16 Mr. Fenoglio? 17 MR. FENOGLIO: Hi. My name is Stephen 18 Fenoglio, for the record. I'm an attorney in Austin, 19 and I was a member of the workgroup. And thank you, 20 Francis. And I share the last comments about covering 21 up emails with data. 22 (Laughter) 23 MR. FENOGLIO: Yeah, I know you put a lot 24 of work in. 25 I agree with your comments, by the way, 31 1 about the need for a survey. If you're going to make 2 policy recommendations, you ought to have a good 3 understanding and fundamental understanding of the 4 impact. 5 I had provided comments to Francis. I 6 assume they were circulated to the group, and what I did 7 was study the county I know best, Travis County, and the 8 City of Austin. It, to me, having worked for many of 9 the charities that conduct bingo in -- around the state 10 and also in Travis County, represents a unique 11 laboratory, if you will, because there are a number of 12 charity run halls that operate legal 8-liner amusement 13 redemption machines; and there's one particular hall 14 that does not and has never done so. 15 And because I represent so many people in 16 the industry, I was able to look at not only the public 17 data, but also data behind the public data. And by 18 public data, I mean what's available on the Commission's 19 website. And what I found was that which confirmed what 20 my belief has been and I think many of the other 21 committees, if you can operate -- and it's a challenge 22 in a legal environment with a law that's not by any 23 means crystal clear. And I heard Emile's comment about 24 gray-area machines, and that's within the nomenclature 25 of the industry that 8-liners are looked at. 32 1 And by the way, Francis, on the bingo hall 2 down in South Texas, I actually represented the game 3 room operator there successfully in both a criminal and 4 a civil case, won both cases, and that gentleman was 5 able to operate until recently. He closed because of 6 all the pressure he faced in operating about 85 machines 7 at one time at that location redeeming for Dave & 8 Buster's style merchandise only. Never any evidence of 9 any cash payments, by the way. But he could not compete 10 against illegal, cash-paying game rooms that proliferate 11 all over the valley, and especially in that county and 12 town. 13 MR. CIANCARELLI: And online. 14 MR. FENOGLIO: Oh, and -- yes, and online, 15 which is a growing area. And the U.S. Congress took 16 efforts to try to eliminate Internet gambling, and 17 certainly they've put the -- a pretty good stop on 18 credit card and bank processing of those activities 19 where they find them. The reality is there are other 20 loop holes around that. 21 But be that as it may, what we found in 22 Travis County was that the halls that operate legal 23 8-liners in conjunction with a bingo operation and 24 redeem solely for tickets, if you will, redeemable 25 solely for bingo merchandise, do substantially better 33 1 than the one hall in town that has chosen not to. And 2 the numbers are dramatic. And I brought with me a few 3 copies of what I submitted to Francis and the members of 4 the committee and so -- but the highlight on that is -- 5 and it was found in a -- and, again, the data I used is 6 data that's available from the Commission's own website 7 for calendar year '09. I also looked at '08 and '07 and 8 the first quarter of 2010, and I chose '09. The numbers 9 weren't that different if you looked at any other 10 calendar periods, but I found calendar year '09 to be 11 particularly reflective of what was going on. 12 And what it reflects is the -- there 13 are -- and by the way, there are a total of six 14 commercially run. Commercially in the sense that 15 they're large halls that conduct bingo 14 times a week, 16 seven days a week. One of the halls, though, was closed 17 for a part of that period. And I included that data 18 just to have it, but I wouldn't suggest that that hall 19 is reflective of anything because they were closed for 20 about four months. 21 But what it does reflect is that there 22 were two halls that were real close in size: The one at 23 American Bingo on Riverside Drive and then River City 24 Bingo on Braker Lane. And River City is the 25 organization that I've been affiliated with for many, 34 1 many years as a volunteer. Those two, their gross 2 receipts are respectively 4.2 million and 4.8 million, 3 so they're close in size. And, again, I used adjusted 4 gross -- I'm sorry -- those are the gross numbers, and 5 then the adjusted gross numbers are close again to 6 1,100,000 in the case of the American Bingo hall, and 7 River City is 1.2 million. 8 The distributions, American Bingo, again, 9 not utilizing machines, $264,000 for the year; the River 10 City is 606,000. If you look at the other charity -- 11 B12 charities, which is a charity-run hall -- much 12 larger organization, by the way, 6 million in gross and 13 1.6 in adjusted gross -- their distributions were 14 979,000. Big Star, which is a -- the largest hall in 15 the City of Austin and one of the largest in the state, 16 grossed for that number of 7.7 million, adjusted gross 17 of 2.25 million, distributions of 866,000. 18 The other thing that's not reflected -- 19 and then there are rent payments that are all over the 20 board. The curious thing to me is the smallest of the 21 four large halls has the second highest rent payments, 22 which raises some interesting questions, and then you 23 can look at all the other data associated with it. 24 I did not -- by the way, in my analysis 25 and study, I didn't pull every bit of data off the 35 1 quarterly reports because some of it was either zero or 2 irrelevant to what I was trying to do. So I don't want 3 someone to look at what I attached. 4 And I guess, Francis, we didn't distribute 5 that to the committee. So everything that's in my 6 analysis is not from the quarterly report; but, again, 7 some of it is irrelevant or immaterial to the analysis. 8 And, again, if we looked at '07 or '08 or the first 9 quarter of 2010, those numbers and ratios are going to 10 be significantly representative of what I found in '09. 11 The other thing -- and so what I see is 12 when the bingo halls operate those type of legal 13 redemption activities, their bingo activity is enhanced 14 significantly. 15 And, again, Travis County is a county 16 where there also proliferate a large number of illegal 17 8-liner cash paying game rooms. In the case of River 18 City Bingo, it's in the same strip center, and they've 19 now moved from an open and notorious activity to it's a 20 knock-knock location. And literally, you knock on the 21 door and there's a security camera, and if they like the 22 way you look, you get in. That's also -- it doesn't -- 23 and now, because of multiple raids at that location, 24 they're not open on any sort of, what we could 25 determine, a regular pattern. So Saturday night, they 36 1 appear -- there appear to be a lot of people there 2 before and after our bingo activity occurs -- our being 3 the River City Bingo charity's activity -- and Fridays 4 and then sometimes Thursday afternoons. I mean, it is 5 truly irregular. 6 But -- and there have been a number of 7 raids throughout Travis County in the last five years. 8 The largest documented raid occurred in '08 where the 9 U.S. Attorney's office seized about $3 million in cash 10 and property from an individual who apparently was 11 transferring some of that money, laundering it and 12 transferring it to -- arguably or allegedly to Al-Quaeda 13 activities in Pakistan or wherever. 14 So it come -- and then Travis County has 15 been a target-rich environment for the illegal 16 activities that go on. And within that, what we see, 17 again, is if you can utilize the legal redemption 18 activities, bingo halls do benefit; and the charities 19 therein benefit dramatically. 20 The other thing it does not reflect -- and 21 some halls -- all halls are different, and that would 22 be, again, if you were going to do a study, you'd want 23 to look at -- some halls, in addition to the redemption 24 of bingo for tickets from the machines -- and by the 25 way, from some of the halls I've looked at, that can be 37 1 a third of their total revenue generation is from the 2 redemption activity associated with legal 8-liner 3 amusement redemption machines, but other -- the halls 4 also benefit because some of the halls directly receive 5 the, quote, profit, quote, unquote, from the operation 6 of those redemption machines; or if they don't, 7 indirectly they benefit because that operator will 8 typically engage in door prize activity, etcetera, 9 thereby encouraging people to come to the hall, stay in 10 the hall, and many door prize activities are -- someone 11 will buy, you know, three card-minding devices, and then 12 you'll have a door prize drawing for that. 13 So you can't reach that activity because 14 it's not regulated by the Lottery Commission. I say 15 you. Mr. Sanderson's numbers won't reflect any of that 16 activity, but it's out there. And in the case of at 17 least one hall in Travis County, that represents 18 typically 100,000 a year in net profit to the charities 19 directly. 20 So I'll be happy to answer any questions. 21 And if not, I'll sit down. 22 MS. ROGERS: Thank you, sir. 23 MR. FENOGLIO: Thank you. 24 MS. ROGERS: Any questions members? Yes. 25 MR. CIANCARELLI: Thanks for that 38 1 information. And just wanted to point out that all 2 these emails they talked about getting, I lumped 3 together some of this information. So, Steve, your 4 letter did go out to the committee, and it's being put 5 into the record today. 6 Also, there was some confusion because we 7 had a concern about so many of us were involved that we 8 have a quorum, and we had to be careful so that we 9 didn't have an opportunity to where somebody could reply 10 to too many people. So each of you got an individual 11 email when I sent them, so that's why there may have 12 been some confusion. 13 MR. FENOGLIO: Ah, okay. 14 MR. CIANCARELLI: So I wasn't -- I was 15 trying to say it without saying it, but everybody had an 16 individual serving of the information. 17 MR. FENOGLIO: Sure. And thank you, 18 Francis, for leading the discussion and getting a bunch 19 of cats organized, if you will, and this activity. And 20 thank you, also, for the disk you gave me this morning. 21 I'll review all the other voluminous data at a later 22 date. Thanks. 23 MS. ROGERS: Thank you. Thank you, sir. 24 Any other public comment at this time? 25 (No response) 39 1 MS. ROGERS: Phil, did you have anything? 2 MR. SANDERSON: I would just like to add, 3 like everyone else has said, Francis has -- did an 4 excellent job. And not only did I get the emails from 5 him, I got the e-mails that he sent all of my staff and 6 they forward them to me. 7 (Laughter) 8 MR. SANDERSON: So I knew a lot of people 9 were receiving information that he was sending out. I 10 think he did an exceptional job. A lot of research was 11 involved, and it is, I'll admit, a very daunting task. 12 It's something that I know the Commission has interest 13 in understanding, you know, what the impact of these 14 devices are on the bingo industry primarily. 15 And I guess the charge was given to the 16 Bingo Advisory Committee because that's one of the -- 17 one of their tasks is to, you know, give the state of 18 the industry, you know, report that to the Commission; 19 and I think that that is where they were asking for the 20 assistance from the BAC to, you know, tell us what you 21 find out out there. I don't know if they were looking 22 for necessarily a professional million dollar research, 23 you know, impact study that -- something like Ipsos Reid 24 or somebody like that might perform, or a market study. 25 I think it was just more, you know, get the gut 40 1 feelings, the opinions, you know, some raw data that 2 would show -- you know, that would support some of your 3 opinions. And I think Mr. Fenoglio just mentioned some, 4 you know, numbers in his presentation just now that says 5 there are some varying degrees of information out there 6 that can give you that guidance and offer up a support 7 of some form of opinion. 8 I know the last -- I guess the last 9 paragraph of the memo that's in the notebook -- I'll 10 paraphrase, I believe. Francis, make sure I say it 11 correctly -- is that if it's an illegal amusement 12 device, then it has a negative impact; and if it's 13 operated in a legal manner, then it has a positive 14 impact. 15 I will say the next Commission meeting, I 16 believe, is tentatively right now set for August the 17 10th, which is a Tuesday. I don't know if you will have 18 any additional information that you may want to report 19 on the side at that meeting. I don't know if you want 20 to postpone it till September, but I think there should 21 be some form of a report at the August meeting. 22 MS. ROGERS: Okay. 23 MR. SANDERSON: And at least an update or 24 status. Of course, Commissioner Schenck is here. He's 25 heard all the details of it. I don't know if it needs 41 1 to be, you know, an hour long in the Commission meeting 2 or not, but I think at least some form of report. If 3 you have my information that you would like for us to 4 give the Commissioners in advance, in their notebook, 5 I'll need that by, you know, Friday or Monday at the 6 latest, possibly, if there's anything you want to 7 include in the notebook that goes out to the Commission. 8 But I'll reiterate, Francis, you did an 9 exceptional job on this. It appears that the majority, 10 if not all, of the committee members had some form of 11 input or provided you some information during the course 12 of this, which I think is very positive and very good. 13 MS. ROGERS: Thank you. 14 MR. CIANCARELLI: Madam chair? 15 MS. ROGERS: Yes. 16 MR. CIANCARELLI: I'd just like to thank 17 Phil. And I think you had it right, and if the state 18 ever legalizes some form of gambling that makes sense 19 for it to be in the bingo halls, I think we kind of 20 share that opinion as well. And I have to leave y'all 21 with saying that I thank everybody that participated and 22 always try to make things fun that we're working on to 23 some degree. 24 And this was tough, but last night, Tom 25 and I went to dinner before -- we drive up here 42 1 together, and we went to this restaurant in Austin. And 2 we walk in, and they're trying to figure out where to 3 seat us; and we looked over, and there's these gaming 4 tables like hold'em, Texas hold'em poker and all that 5 kind of stuff. Well, man, about a half an hour after we 6 were in there, that place is packed and buzzing. 7 And on our way out, I said to the hostess, 8 I said, "How do they, you know, pay the people, or what 9 do they do? You know, how do they come out of this?" 10 She said, "Oh, they give them a free tab." So I'm just 11 like saying to myself, "Here we go. This is 12 merchandise." That's -- there -- the money is going to 13 stay in that hall and all that, so -- but I won't tell 14 where it was. 15 (Laughter) 16 MS. ROGERS: Thank you. And I will have a 17 summary for the Commissioners at their next meeting of 18 everything that we've said here. I will, of course, 19 make it shorter. 20 AGENDA ITEM NO. 4 21 MS. ROGERS: No other public comment. At 22 this time, we'll move on to Item No. 4, "Consideration 23 of and possible discussion and/or action on the Bingo 24 Advisory Committee FY10 Work Plan including a report to 25 Commissioners on the accomplishments of the Fiscal Year 43 1 10 Work Plan." 2 Melissa Young? 3 MS. YOUNG: Okay. We had broken this 4 agenda item out among everybody in the group, so 5 there's -- some of us have more than one item, and some 6 of us have just one item. Several people have gotten 7 back to me with that information, but we don't have it 8 ready to present today. So what I was hoping to do was 9 actually table this until the next meeting, and we'll 10 have the full report and a presentation prepared for 11 that. 12 MS. ROGERS: Okay. Sounds great. 13 I am one of the members on the workgroup, 14 and I will say other members that are on this workgroup, 15 also, our fiscal year goes from September 1st to 16 October -- I'm sorry -- August 31st. So that's 17 September 1st to August 31st, so you know that's the 18 time that your information should be from. 19 Am I correct, Phil, on that? 20 MR. SANDERSON: That is correct. 21 MS. ROGERS: Okay. So we will have this 22 report ready for the next meeting. 23 AGENDA ITEM NO. 5 24 MS. ROGERS: Item No. 5, "Consideration of 25 and possible discussion and/or action on the Bingo 44 1 Advisory Committee FY11 Work Plan." 2 Melissa Young? 3 MS. YOUNG: And on this item, what we 4 decided to do was carry forward the same work plan that 5 we had from the Fiscal Year 2009 to 2010. What we're 6 trying to do is make sure that this work plan 7 encompasses all of the goals of the BAC, and all the 8 workgroups that we currently have set up will be able to 9 work into the work plan. So having said that, we just 10 basically changed the years on the last year's work plan 11 and are planning on moving forward with the exact same 12 items. 13 MS. ROGERS: Okay. Thank you. 14 And, members, you should all have a copy 15 of the 2010-11 Work Plan. At this time, is there a 16 motion to accept this as our new work plan? 17 MS. BEILUE: I'd like to make that motion. 18 MS. ROGERS: Okay. Motion by Markey. Do 19 I have a second? 20 MR. BOURGOYNE: Second. 21 MS. ROGERS: Second by Mr. Emile. All 22 those in favor. 23 (All those in favor of the motion so 24 responded) 25 MS. ROGERS: All those opposed? 45 1 (No response) 2 MS. ROGERS: This work plan will be 3 accepted as our -- of course, according to the 4 Commissioners, with their approval -- as our new 5 2010-2011 Work Plan. 6 AGENDA ITEM NO. 6 7 MS. ROGERS: Item No. 6, "Report and 8 possible discussion and/or action on the workgroup - 9 Nominations." 10 Ms. Markey? 11 MS. BEILUE: Markey Ford Beilue'. 12 MS. ROGERS: Ms. Weaver's last name has 13 changed, and please say it one more time. 14 MS. BEILUE: Beilue'. 15 MS. ROGERS: Beilue'. Okay. Between you 16 and Emile. 17 (Laughter) 18 MS. ROGERS: And Francis. Okay. 19 MS. BEILUE: Let's see. I'm the chair of 20 the BAC nomination workgroup. The -- even though it 21 was -- I was listed as Bingo Advisory Committee member 22 only, I was the chair of this. The nomination workgroup 23 consists of Melissa Young, Joe Williams, Tom Weekley, 24 and Steve Bresnen. 25 I want to thank everybody. We divided up 46 1 the 14 applications that we had. And let's see. I 2 think we had 11 to start with, and we had three more 3 sent to us. So we had nine that were stamped by the 4 Bingo Division, and five that were not. It was also 5 brought to my attention that I did not have nor did I 6 ever receive Darin Peters' nomination form, so we were 7 not able to consider him for this -- any positions at 8 the BAC. We had two people apply under general public, 9 two under distributors, one under manufacturer, three 10 under charity lessor, two under commercial lessor, two 11 under conducting operation Charitable Bingo Divisions 12 for fraternal, and three for the same with -- under 13 veterans. 14 We make -- I passed out a report from our 15 workgroup. Everybody got a copy. I did not leave one 16 over there for Ms. Gifford since she was not present, 17 and I gave -- so I have some extras if anyone needs one. 18 We would like to propose that our 19 recommendations are as follows, and this is in no 20 particular order. We'd like to recommend that Kimberly 21 Rogers stays in the BAC. We commend you for the work 22 that you've done since 2004 serving and the 12 years 23 that you've had with bingo. 24 Earl Silver as commercial lessor. He's 25 served on the BAC since 2007. He's the vice chair. 47 1 He's always one of the first to volunteer his time or 2 either we volunteer him, either way. But he's always a 3 great asset, and we would like to retain him also. 4 I'd like to point out that in all the 5 nominations that we got, we had two that were diligent 6 enough to not only do it in 2009, but also again in 7 2010. And they were recommended in 2009, and we'd like 8 to recommend them again: One being Ronnie Baker as 9 distributor, and one being W.L. Davis as conducting 10 operator for a veteran organization. The positions that 11 we did have open were charity -- I'm sorry -- charity 12 lessor and commercial lessor. 13 And that is our report. 14 MS. ROGERS: Okay. We have three seats 15 coming available? 16 MR. SANDERSON: There are -- there's three 17 potential vacancies. It's a charity lessor, Kimberly 18 Rogers' position. 19 MS. ROGERS: Right. 20 MR. SANDERSON: Commercial lessor, Earl 21 Silver's position; and general public member, Pat 22 Gifford's position. 23 And also, just to let you know, W.L. Davis 24 sent us an email, I want to say, last week withdrawing 25 his name from consideration. 48 1 MS. BEILUE: We did have one -- I'm 2 sorry -- that was withdrawn also. I put it in there -- 3 excuse me -- due to health reasons after we had received 4 it, and he was one of the last three that we had 5 received. But as -- let's see -- was it James Bucky, I 6 think? Yes. Mr. Rucks redacted his application due to 7 recent health concerns. 8 MS. ROGERS: So at this time, it would be 9 the committee's recommendations for, one, Kimberly 10 Rogers, myself; Earl Silver; and Ronnie Baker? 11 MS. BEILUE: Yes. Mr. Davis -- and I did 12 not receive an email from him. 13 I would also like, as being the chair, I 14 had checked with the chair for the last two years on 15 these nominations, and I had never -- they said that the 16 Lottery Commission and the Bingo Division had never sent 17 out the nomination forms like they did this year. Is 18 that a new procedure that's going to happen, or is it 19 just something that was done this year? Our form, the 20 BAC, produced this form, and it was our form that was 21 sent out from Worlanda to all the applications that we 22 had already interviewed, and so they were confused and 23 wondered why they needed to fill it out again. 24 MR. SANDERSON: Oh, you're talking about 25 the questionnaire? 49 1 MS. BEILUE: Yes. 2 MR. SANDERSON: Okay. Not the nomination 3 form. 4 MS. BEILUE: Well, the -- yes, sir, the 5 questionnaire. The first question was changed very 6 slightly, but it's the -- all the rest of the questions 7 were identical. 8 MR. SANDERSON: Well, I know last year we 9 sent questions out, as well, so -- 10 MS. BEILUE: I wonder why we didn't -- 11 MR. SANDERSON: -- I don't know if they -- 12 MS. BEILUE: -- copy that? 13 MR. SANDERSON: -- ended up being the same 14 questions or not. I apologize for that because I didn't 15 see which ones y'all were using at the time, so -- but, 16 yeah, we did send out a questionnaire. 17 MS. BEILUE: They were just confused. 18 They didn't -- you know, I had people calling and 19 emailing going, "Why are we doing this again? We've 20 already done this. Was the, you know, information 21 lost?" And I was like, "No. You know, we've already 22 met, and we've made, you know, recommendations. We just 23 haven't presented it yet." And they're like, "Well, we 24 just got this." And it was about two weeks ago, I want 25 to say, that that happened. 50 1 MR. SANDERSON: We're in the process of 2 reviewing those now. 3 MS. BEILUE: Okay. So is the nomination 4 committee still viable for the BAC to do? 5 MR. SANDERSON: The Commissioners have in 6 the past historically accepted or, you know, looked for 7 recommendations from the Bingo Advisory Committee as to 8 who they would recommend to serve on the committee. The 9 Staff has a recommendation that we provide to the 10 Commissioners, and then, of course, the Commissioners 11 can actually appoint anyone they so desire. So that's 12 the process. 13 MS. BEILUE: Thank you. 14 MS. ROGERS: Thank you. 15 Phil, since this is the recommendation of 16 a workgroup, do we need to take a vote on it? 17 MR. SANDERSON: Yes, ma'am. 18 MS. ROGERS: Okay. 19 All right. Members, do I have a motion to 20 take -- to list Kimberly Rogers, Earl Silver, and Ronnie 21 Baker as the nominations for our new -- for the new 22 season? 23 MS. BEILUE: I would like to make that 24 motion. 25 MS. ROGERS: Thank you. Motion made by 51 1 Markey Weaver. 2 Do I have a second? 3 MR. CIANCARELLI: Second here. 4 MS. ROGERS: By Francis. 5 All those in favor? 6 (All those in favor of the motion so 7 responded) 8 MS. ROGERS: All those opposed? 9 (No response) 10 It will pass unanimously -- sorry -- that 11 three names will be presented to the Commissioners for 12 the new seats. 13 AGENDA ITEM NO. 7 14 MS. ROGERS: Our next item will be 7, 15 "Report and possible discussion and/or action on the 16 workgroup - Prize Board Management." 17 Emile? 18 MR. BOURGOYNE: Well, let me be the first 19 to thank Knowles for this assignment. 20 (Laughter) 21 MR. BOURGOYNE: And let me be the first to 22 thank Earl for passing the chair on to me since it's not 23 what I thought it was. 24 (Laughter) 25 MR. BOURGOYNE: And I just, for the 52 1 record, would like to state that the chairman of the 2 Prize Board Management group has never won a bingo game 3 or had to manage a prize board, so it was somewhat 4 interesting task for me. 5 But anyway, we had several email exchanges 6 and phone calls between members of the workgroup, which 7 was myself Darin Peters, Earl Silver, Joe Williams, and 8 two non-BAC members, Trey Smith and Greg Gentry from the 9 public, as well as communications with Susan Taylor, who 10 was of great help to me. 11 We narrowed the focus of the workgroup to 12 our definition of what a Prize Board Management was, was 13 managing the bingo receipts to the $2500 session payout 14 limitations. And what we -- about the only thing we 15 were able to accomplish was methods that are permitted 16 in Texas to do that, to do that sort of thing. 17 And we came up with basically three 18 methods. One's based on -- you could base it on 19 attendance or the amount of money received and then 20 adjust your prize board accordingly. The other is based 21 on a set percentage of buy ins, and probably the most 22 popular one we found that's being done in Texas is 23 half-pay or quarter-pay games. And we went into details 24 as to how those games were run and put it in the report, 25 and that's about as far as we got. And I'm not sure how 53 1 many groups in Texas know that they are capable of doing 2 these methods of managing their prize boards, but surely 3 if they're not, we need to make every effort to let them 4 know that these are methods that they can use one or 5 more of to help them to get their bingo receipts in 6 line. 7 And that would be our report at this time. 8 That's about all we've got. I'm sorry. 9 MR. SANDERSON: Madam chair? 10 MS. ROGERS: Yes. 11 MR. SANDERSON: As Emile was just, you 12 know, speaking on this workgroup and his report, as you 13 know, the last couple of bingo bulletins, the BAC chair 14 has had a memo included in the bingo bulletin. And this 15 might be something that would be good for the BAC chair 16 to say, you know, something about Prize Board Management 17 and, you know, use a lot of the information that Emile 18 has in his report. We can put it in the next bingo 19 bulletin. 20 MS. ROGERS: Wonderful. I sure will. I 21 will look into that. 22 MR. BOURGOYNE: I don't think it's 23 anything that's appropriate to go into the rules unless 24 there was certain ways of doing this that you didn't 25 want them to do. But I think that we need to do 54 1 everything we can to notify the charities in Texas that 2 there are ways they can help manage their prize boards. 3 I particularly like the half-pay, quarter-pay methods 4 because they can still advertise the full prize board 5 payout as 2500 because it's still possible, so -- 6 MS. ROGERS: Well, and with that said, I 7 wrote a small -- well, it was a little bit long -- 8 article about keeping excitement in bingo, and this 9 will -- you know, people need to know what they can do, 10 the different avenues, the different ways, the different 11 things they can do; and so it kind of goes into there, 12 the prize board. So thank you. 13 Members, any comment? 14 MS. BEILUE: I'd like to make one. 15 On the half price, full pay, our hall has 16 that on Monday nights. We call it Economic Crisis 17 Monday, and it seems to go over very well; and it's 18 helped our Monday nights. 19 MS. ROGERS: Unique name. That's cute. 20 Great hall manager. There you go. There you go. 21 Do I have any public comment at this time? 22 Mr. Fenoglio, would you like to make a comment? 23 MR. FENOGLIO: Just very, very briefly. 24 For the record, my name is Stephen Fenoglio. 25 The only thing -- and Emile, thank you, 55 1 and I agree with your observations. As Phil will tell 2 you, that there are challenges when halls go from full 3 pay to half pay to quarter pay and the possibility that 4 somebody may incorrectly report numbers as far as how 5 much is full pay versus half pay versus quarter pay. 6 And to the extent that charities move in that direction, 7 they should be counseled, advised that there are some 8 ratios that you can utilize to make sure. 9 And if it's not obvious, if you have a 10 half pay, full pay -- I'm going to make it up -- regular 11 game is $500 and a half pay gets 250. And the cost of 12 the bingo products that customers purchase is obviously 13 different if you're paying a full pay pack versus a half 14 pay or a quarter pay. And at the end of the session, 15 they've awarded a total of, let's say in this 16 hypothetical, five games at 500 each or 250 if it's only 17 half pay; and they report to the Commission that they 18 all paid all of 2500. 19 In fact, someone won a half pay. The only 20 people who know that in the hall are, obviously, the 21 customer who won the 250 and one or more charity 22 employees. And it -- there is -- there can be a 23 tendency for someone to want to report full pay, and 24 there are audits from Phil's division where that has 25 happened repeatedly. It was eye-opening to me when I 56 1 saw it. And, in fact, they're awarding half pays. 2 And so there are some ratios that people 3 can utilize to look at that. I'm sure Phil knows some 4 other -- or his staff knows other ways to make sure that 5 the charity's getting its bang for the buck, so... 6 MS. ROGERS: I would have one question. 7 Would you suggest that they contact the Bingo Division 8 to get that information as to how to handle? Let's say 9 they don't do any half pays? We don't do any half 10 pays -- 11 MR. FENOGLIO: Well, then, there's no -- 12 MS. ROGERS: -- so -- 13 MR. FENOGLIO: -- issue of, you know, 14 misreporting if you're all doing full pay. 15 MS. ROGERS: But if they wanted to go into 16 doing half pays, they should contact -- 17 MR. FENOGLIO: I think they -- 18 MS. ROGERS: -- the Lottery Commission? 19 MR. FENOGLIO: I think they should talk to 20 Phil's -- I don't know who on his staff, but I know he's 21 going to get ready to speak. But I think there should 22 be in place on the go in -- 23 MS. ROGERS: Uh-huh. 24 MR. FENOGLIO: -- before you start, some 25 rules of the road, if you will, to ensure that that type 57 1 of misreporting doesn't occur because it's no big 2 surprise. If that happens, someone's putting money in 3 their pocket that they're not entitled to and that 4 adversely impacts the charity's bottom line, obviously, 5 and it also affects the integrity of the game. 6 And when the auditors find out about it, 7 the charities are going to have to -- expected to make 8 up the difference, and it's not enough from the 9 division's standpoint historically that, "Well, we found 10 out about it through the course of the audit. We fired 11 Sam." Let's say Sam was the one who did it. "Okay. 12 Everything fine?" And Phil's division staff to date has 13 said, "Well, no, it's not because you were required to 14 know about what was going on in your hall, and you need 15 to make other arrangements to pay additional penalties 16 or redeposit monies, etcetera." 17 So it can be a harsh result on two 18 different levels from the charity, and so I don't know. 19 I mean, I've had this conversation with Phil, and 20 obviously -- I'm going to say one more thing. He may be 21 reluctant to tell you everything they do because if, you 22 know, you tell the thief how to rob the store, guess 23 what's going to happen? So anyhow. 24 MR. BOURGOYNE: Madam chair? 25 MS. ROGERS: Yes. 58 1 MR. BOURGOYNE: It's my understanding from 2 talking with Suzanne Taylor that at least her facility 3 has a policy where they use a different permutation or a 4 different pattern of paper for full pay versus half pay, 5 and that's how they keep their audit records straight. 6 In electronics, all the handheld guys I've talked to 7 have the capabilities of recording and maintaining that 8 data for which card minder was full pay and which was 9 half pay and that sort of thing. 10 MR. FENOGLIO: And that's generally how 11 the auditors find it, is they get the Z tape on the card 12 minders, but that's a year after the fact or more. And, 13 you know, at that point, memories fade, and we're not 14 sure who was -- might have been putting their hand in 15 someone's pocket that they're not entitled to. So there 16 are ways you can -- I agree, Emile. The charities just 17 need to know more about that if they're -- 18 MR. BOURGOYNE: Perhaps we should provide 19 them with guidelines or recommendations if they're going 20 to use one of these methods to manage their prize 21 boards. 22 MR. SANDERSON: I think that would be a 23 very good idea, and I knew -- you know, as -- I was 24 going to mention before Mr. Fenoglio got up there, the 25 key is that they're going to have to have some sort of 59 1 internal inventory controls in place to make sure that 2 someone's not pocketing the extra funds. 3 MR. FENOGLIO: And they can be 4 substantial. In the case of one bingo hall, over a 5 100,000 in a year. 6 MS. ROGERS: Well, that was my question to 7 you. Before I put this into, you know, an article to 8 say, "Hey, if you need to boost, do Economic Mondays," 9 you know, however you said it, where can they go get 10 information to find out how to do it correctly? And 11 that would be to call Staff. Correct? 12 MR. SANDERSON: And we can work on that as 13 well as, you know, have, you know, maybe Emile and if 14 Mr. Fenoglio's amenable, to maybe input some information 15 into the article as well. 16 MR. FENOGLIO: I'd be happy to help in any 17 way because it's been revealing to me. 18 And I don't mean to suggest that in the 19 example I used, 100,000 they couldn't account for. I 20 mean, people do make mistakes. I'm not suggesting that 21 someone walked out with 100,000, but it's a large -- 22 it's a very large number. It's not, you know, nickel 23 and dime-type numbers. That's the potential, and I'm 24 not suggesting that every hall or any hall necessarily 25 does it, but it's -- it can be eye-opening if you read 60 1 one of the audits. 2 MS. BEILUE: Mr. Fenoglio, I have a 3 question, please, for my own information. 4 So are you telling me that in some halls 5 that have half price, full pay or -- then at the end of 6 the night, they don't play the extra games that they're 7 supposed to play to send out that money back out to your 8 customers to make it more exciting? 9 MR. FENOGLIO: In some halls, they 10 don't -- there's not an extra game to play. They 11 just -- they have a five- or seven-game program. 12 MS. BEILUE: Right. 13 MR. FENOGLIO: And so if -- and let's say 14 it's a five-game program with 500 each game. 15 MS. BEILUE: Right. 16 MR. FENOGLIO: And if it's a half -- and 17 sometimes, by the way, half pay, it's not actually $250; 18 it may be $350. 19 MS. BEILUE: Right. 20 MR. FENOGLIO: It's just collectively 21 referred to as a half pay. But in that -- in some of 22 those halls, if they had five games and they report at 23 the end of the day 2500 was paid out but, in fact, there 24 were two half pay winners, they do not run to -- and 25 let's say that at each of those they pay 250, they don't 61 1 run two more 250 game plans. They stop. 2 MS. BEILUE: Why not? 3 MR. FENOGLIO: Because that's the plan 4 that they have in place. They just don't. 5 MS. BEILUE: Okay. 6 MR. FENOGLIO: Others -- many others will. 7 MS. BEILUE: Well, our program would say 8 seven games, but if we had someone -- 9 MR. FENOGLIO: Under that hypothetical. 10 MS. BEILUE: Hypothetically. 11 MR. FENOGLIO: Yeah. 12 MS. BEILUE: And -- but if someone wins 13 one half price -- you know, paid for half price -- 14 MR. FENOGLIO: Uh-huh. 15 MS. BEILUE: -- then at the end, then we 16 would play another. Well, if three people won, then, 17 we'd play three more games. 18 MR. FENOGLIO: Sure. 19 MS. BEILUE: So you're saying some halls 20 are not playing those additional three games? 21 MR. FENOGLIO: Absolutely. 22 MS. BEILUE: And it's not a donation back 23 into their charity? 24 MR. FENOGLIO: In the case of some audits, 25 it was a donation into someone's individual pocket. 62 1 MS. BEILUE: Okay. 2 MR. FENOGLIO: Not -- so, I mean, the 3 charities -- 4 MR. WEEKLEY: Unauthorized. 5 MR. FENOGLIO: Yeah. Someone benefited, 6 but it was not the charitable organization. In your 7 case, if you're doing that, I can't think of how you 8 could abuse that situation if you've -- and obviously, 9 I'm not suggesting you would, Markey. But if you've got 10 all the inventory and recordkeeping, then -- 11 MS. BEILUE: Right. 12 MR. FENOGLIO: -- you know, clearly, you 13 can show, well, everything. You know, "We did pay out 14 2500." But some halls don't do it that way. 15 It's amazing to me, when I look around the 16 state and talk with and then read audits, about the 17 different ways successful halls -- and some of these 18 halls were still successful by any measure that had some 19 of these problems, but how they do it differently. And, 20 you know, there's not a -- you know, I periodically get 21 a question, "Well, Fenoglio, we're thinking of opening 22 up a new hall. Who do we go to to tell us how to run 23 the hall? You know, to run it, you know, is there a 24 gray-haired group of people" -- I don't have much hair 25 to be gray -- "but, you know, former managers who could 63 1 come in and tell us how to do it?" 2 And the answer is generally, "No." 3 There's some distributors who can help. The staff can 4 to a certain extent, but they're prohibited from, as you 5 know, playing bingo. So it's kind of hard for Phil to 6 tell you -- tell anyone how to run a hall because it's a 7 totally different skill set to manage a division like he 8 does versus running a hall. And I'm sure you've had, 9 probably, conversations with folks, "We're thinking 10 about opening a hall. What do -- you know, who do we 11 need to hire? How do we do all this?" And so it's just 12 amazing to me, not surprisingly, that people do it 13 differently all over the state. 14 MR. BOURGOYNE: I'd just like to point 15 out, or at least try to clarify, that just because they 16 don't run the extra games doesn't mean it has to go in 17 someone's pocket. It could have benefited the charity. 18 That's the whole purpose of managing the prize board. 19 MR. FENOGLIO: Absolutely. 20 MR. BOURGOYNE: That's what they're trying 21 to do. 22 MS. BEILUE: Right. 23 MR. FENOGLIO: Absolutely. 24 MR. BOURGOYNE: Because they only paid 25 half price admission for that winner who won the half 64 1 prize, probably that's why they're only getting half the 2 prize. 3 MS. BEILUE: Right. 4 MR. BOURGOYNE: So they came in cheaper. 5 MS. BEILUE: That's why I said -- 6 MR. BOURGOYNE: So the bingo receipts at 7 the -- 8 MS. BEILUE: -- it did not go back into 9 the charity -- 10 MR. BOURGOYNE: The bingo receipts at the 11 door is less -- 12 MS. BEILUE: -- and it wasn't paid out. 13 MR. BOURGOYNE: -- and they're paying out 14 less. That's the whole purpose of managing a prize 15 board. 16 MR. FENOGLIO: And there are halls -- I'm 17 not suggesting that all halls that move to a half pay by 18 any means are doing it to benefit someone personally. I 19 mean, that's the -- it's a good plan to do. And it -- 20 the same thing, you know, some of them do it on a 21 pari-mutuel basis based on literally how much dollars 22 come in their prize boards. There are not many that are 23 doing it that way, and part of it I think is customers 24 want to know, "Well, if I play, I'm going to win this 25 amount." 65 1 MR. BOURGOYNE: That's the beauty. 2 MS. ROGERS: Thank you. Thank you, sir. 3 Any other comments, members? 4 (No response) 5 Any other public comments? 6 (No response) 7 AGENDA ITEM NO. 8 8 MS. ROGERS: Okay. At this time, we'll 9 move to No. 8, "Consideration of and possible action on 10 modifications of the Charitable Bingo Operations 11 Division's Bingo Registry search engine to provide an 12 enhancement to include the listings of both active and 13 inactive workers sorted by authorized organization." 14 Mr. Francis Ciancarelli? 15 MR. CIANCARELLI: Thank you. I'm bringing 16 this to the BAC members at the request of an authorized 17 organization, happens to be my organization which is the 18 Rotary Club of Mission. And every year, Rotary gets new 19 presidents, and we got a doer this year; and so she is 20 trying to get everyone to cover bingo, conduct bingo, so 21 that our frequency of participation at the bingo halls 22 is expanded out. 23 So the second paragraph I'm going to read 24 to you because it kind of summarizes what's in the 25 notebook is: A request has been made to modify the 66 1 bingo registry search to provide a listing enhancement 2 to include both active and inactive workers sorted by 3 authorized organization. 4 And I'm holding up -- and for the record, 5 I'm holding up a Charity Bingo's worker badge, 6 identification card. It has the name of the person. It 7 has a number, registry number, and has an expiration 8 date. And in a nutshell, what we have here is some 9 people don't look at their own badge and say, "I 10 expired," meaning their badge; that they're out of date, 11 so they kind of fall off of the registry and go into an 12 inactive state. So if you go in and look at the 17,000 13 names that are in there, you might not find John Doe in 14 there any more. 15 And what this particular individual wants 16 is a way to go in there and kind of police this because 17 you can say to everybody, "Check your badge." But she 18 wants to be able to go to them and say, "Hey, get back 19 on the list and be compliant." So that's what this 20 request is. 21 I'm sure there's some data restrictions 22 and considerations, and I think I included in this tab 23 in the notebook the applications, and there's an 24 application for a new person for the registry. There is 25 an application for a request for renewal and designation 67 1 of a member. I don't know if I got that one right or 2 not. 3 But anyway, this may not have enough 4 information to put the authorized organization. That's 5 something that Mr. Sanderson would have to address for 6 us, and that's what we're looking to do. And I'll 7 hold -- I have a sidebar that I'm going to go into in a 8 minute, but that's what they're asking for, is to be 9 able to go to the website and go to the search engine 10 and put in their organization's name, which is not a 11 feature option, and say, "Tell me who's in our registry 12 for us. Are they active or inactive?" 13 And Mr. Sanderson was gracious a few 14 months ago, I guess, that they included the date of the 15 badges; and, again, that person's got to be really 16 proactive because you're looking for people before they 17 fall off the list, which means you've got to do some 18 sorts and things like that. 19 So, again, just looking for a way to see 20 by organization who's on their registry for that 21 organization, and are they active and inactive. 22 MS. ROGERS: So basically, you're asking 23 for -- it would be something like adding to the bingo 24 service area because I know a charity can go on there. 25 You can see how many temporaries you've used; how many 68 1 you have remaining. You can get all that information. 2 So basically, adding to that, all of their employees? 3 The workers that are listed? Is that what you're 4 looking for? 5 MR. CIANCARELLI: Not the people that are 6 calling the bingo and things. We're talking about the 7 members of the charity, of the Rotary Club, that should 8 go there to conduct the bingo. 9 MS. ROGERS: Well, they are listed -- they 10 would still be listed as a registered worker, the same 11 as a caller, an usher, a cashier. 12 MR. CIANCARELLI: Correct. 13 MS. ROGERS: So that's what -- am I 14 gathering that correct? Phil, is that what you're 15 putting -- that Francis is asking for? 16 MR. SANDERSON: Well, the information is 17 already there. If you go into the Bingo Services Center 18 and you log in as a member of an organization, you have 19 access rights to that list. 20 MS. ROGERS: Uh-huh. 21 MR. SANDERSON: Then you click on 22 "Individuals," and it'll show you everyone that is 23 listed on your application, worker or nonworker, that's 24 an officer, director, or bingo chairperson or operator 25 will come up on that list. 69 1 Now, the Worker Registry, if you go to 2 that, it's not going to show you that information 3 because that is the complete list of those individuals 4 that have made an application to be on the worker 5 registry and work at a bingo hall. And the sole purpose 6 of the Worker Registry was to eliminate having 7 organizations to tell us who their workers were. 8 MS. ROGERS: Right. 9 MR. SANDERSON: And because they were 10 getting in trouble for not telling us. 11 So the individual workers, which I think I 12 heard Francis just mention he's not looking for, the 13 callers and the cashiers and the floor workers and stuff 14 like that, you know, that's under the Worker Registry. 15 Anybody that is a member of your organization that has 16 been issued a Worker Registry badge is listed under your 17 organization; and it does have the registry number, and 18 it does have the expiration dates and as well as some 19 other additional information. 20 MS. ROGERS: Under the Bingo Service 21 Center? 22 MR. SANDERSON: Bingo Services Center, 23 once you log in. 24 MS. ROGERS: Yes. So is the lady aware of 25 that? 70 1 MR. CIANCARELLI: She wouldn't have access 2 because she's not the chairperson, and she's not a 3 designated -- 4 MS. ROGERS: You don't have to be the 5 chairperson. 6 MR. SANDERSON: The chairperson can grant 7 anybody access, and anybody that is listed on the record 8 as an officer or director can create their own log in. 9 MS. ROGERS: If I'm not mistaken, you can 10 fill out the form -- the chairperson can fill out the 11 form as authorized representative for this lady, and 12 then she would be allowed to send her information into 13 the Lottery and they would grant her access. 14 MR. SANDERSON: But my understanding is, 15 she is the president? 16 MR. CIANCARELLI: She's president of the 17 club, but she's not on the -- 18 MR. SANDERSON: So -- well, she should be. 19 If she's not on the application, then that's a different 20 concern. 21 MR. CIANCARELLI: We -- chairperson -- 22 bingo chairperson is different. 23 MR. SANDERSON: I understand that, but the 24 president -- 25 MR. CIANCARELLI: In our -- 71 1 MR. SANDERSON: But the president still 2 has access to that information on the Bingo Services 3 Center. 4 MR. BOURGOYNE: Any officer or director. 5 MR. SANDERSON: Any officer or director. 6 MS. ROGERS: Because she's a board member. 7 MR. CIANCARELLI: Uh-huh. 8 MS. ROGERS: Yes. 9 MR. CIANCARELLI: Well, I'll review that 10 with her because I know I've had some conversations 11 that -- 12 MS. ROGERS: You need to make sure that 13 she knows the Bingo Service Center is definitely her 14 best friend. If in any way she has to do any type of 15 paperwork or keep up with dates or anything, it can 16 become your best friend. 17 MR. CIANCARELLI: I know if my memory 18 serves me right, I had asked for to be granted access 19 just to go in to observe what information was available, 20 and that's probably what alluded me here. 21 Now, can I address my sidebar? 22 MS. ROGERS: Is it still under this agenda 23 item? 24 MR. CIANCARELLI: Yes, uh-huh. 25 MS. ROGERS: Yes, sir, go ahead. 72 1 MR. CIANCARELLI: Again, I'm holding up 2 the bingo worker card, Charity Bingo worker card, and 3 what I'd like to suggest is that we modify this for the 4 people who are involved in the organization -- again, 5 not the cashier or the callers -- to be modified to say 6 "conductor" or "operator," something that would separate 7 the workers who are doing the work from the people who 8 are responsible for making it happen right. 9 And the reason, I think it would be 10 valuable to the player because if you all look like 11 workers and you're looking for who can I really go to 12 and -- you know, that may be listed in the house rules 13 as the organization, that would make a distinction that 14 we're not in the callers and that category. So just a 15 suggestion at this point. 16 MS. ROGERS: I do know that whoever is 17 your operator for that session is supposed to very 18 clearly have their name posted on the wall. I know they 19 would have to associate two things together, but -- 20 MR. CIANCARELLI: I've seen names up there 21 for -- same name up there for four months -- you know, 22 for a month. 23 MS. ROGERS: Sure. 24 MS. BEILUE: May I ask a question? 25 MS. ROGERS: Yes. 73 1 MS. BEILUE: Francis, do you have a hall 2 manager in your hall? 3 MR. CIANCARELLI: Yes. 4 MS. BEILUE: And is your hall manager 5 present every night that bingo is open or every day 6 bingo is open? 7 MR. WEEKLEY: Pretty much. 8 MR. CIANCARELLI: Yeah, I -- with 9 certainty, I cannot say that, but I think there's been 10 times when they may not have been there for the whole 11 thing. And I know one time -- we have like a double 12 management system. Right, Tom? Kind of? And so 13 they're there most of the time. 14 MS. BEILUE: That would be a 15 responsibility of the hall manager, to keep up with all 16 those dates and help your president of whatever charity 17 with that paperwork so she could find what she wants to 18 find and make sure she does have her card also. 19 MR. CIANCARELLI: Well, I'll counsel with 20 her about the Bingo Service Center, and maybe I can look 21 over her shoulder and see how it is so that I can help 22 her later on. 23 MS. BEILUE: I've got -- 24 MR. CIANCARELLI: But I was just going to 25 say, when I go in -- and I don't do it very often -- to 74 1 conduct bingo, they're always there. And I don't 2 know -- Tom and I are both in the same hall, which is 3 unusual, and I know they know Tom very well and they 4 know me. 5 MS. ROGERS: Just another idea for your 6 operators that are going to walk around with their 7 worker's badge. Make it different with putting -- get 8 the labels, you know, and have operator printed on it so 9 they can stick it on the outside of the lanyard that 10 they wear, you know, change their color. 11 MR. CIANCARELLI: Uh-huh. 12 MS. ROGERS: You can do a lot of things to 13 identify differently. I think there would be a lot of, 14 maybe, costs involved with having to differentiate 15 between operators and then ones that are workers and 16 etcetera. 17 MR. CIANCARELLI: Well, my thought was 18 it's stock -- paper stock that was probably preprinted, 19 and, okay, we're printing these types of badges today -- 20 MS. ROGERS: Right. 21 MR. CIANCARELLI: -- and there's -- 22 MR. SILVER: That could be an excessive 23 cost on the Bingo Division itself by having to print 24 "registry" and then "registry worker" or "registry 25 operator," however it's laid out. 75 1 That was a good idea by Kim. Like on some 2 conferences, if you're a speaker or something like that, 3 you have that little flag at the bottom of your -- yeah, 4 whatever you call it. 5 MR. CIANCARELLI: Uh-huh. 6 MR. SILVER: Yeah, you win. 7 Maybe just have something like that for 8 operator or conductor or something like that. But that 9 is a good idea to differentiate. 10 MR. CIANCARELLI: I'm just glad that we 11 have a president that's paying attention. 12 MS. ROGERS: Very glad. That's awesome. 13 MS. BEILUE: Francis, you also need to 14 make sure that your operator on duty is changing that 15 sign, if it changes, because that has to be done. 16 MS. ROGERS: And it's the operator that I 17 believe will be in trouble if they come in. 18 MR. CIANCARELLI: Agreed. And we tell our 19 people, "Now, look at our license to make sure it's in 20 date, and look at our" -- 21 MS. BEILUE: That's part of your hall 22 manager's job. 23 MS. ROGERS: Do we have any public comment 24 at this time? 25 (No response) 76 1 MS. ROGERS: Members, any other comment on 2 this? 3 (No response) 4 AGENDA ITEM NO. 9 5 MS. ROGERS: Okay. We'll move to Item 6 No. 9, and that is open public comment. 7 Do we have anyone at this time? 8 (No response) 9 MS. ROGERS: Commissioner Schenck, would 10 you -- do you have any comment at this time? 11 COMM. SCHENCK: Yeah. I want to thank 12 everybody again for your service. 13 I'd like to take you back to the second 14 agenda item -- or actually, third item and see if I 15 can't get some more input from you. This is on the 16 effect of 8-liner machines on Charitable Bingo. 17 Let me ask it this way: Let me ask each 18 of you to assume that you're in charge. You've been 19 made the king of the state of Texas. Your only interest 20 is in advancing the charities and the receipts that 21 they're going to receive. I'll give you three options. 22 You have to vote for one. There is no fourth option. 23 One, we get rid of all 8-liner machines in 24 the state, and we're operating only Charitable Bingo and 25 lottery as your sources of gaming opportunity. 77 1 Two, we put machines in the halls only 2 with all of the profit from the machines going to the 3 charities or the state. Okay? 4 And, three, we allow the machines as they 5 currently operate with the machines being owned by the 6 lessors or the building operators, and the machine's 7 functioning essentially as a draw to bring people into 8 the charity. 9 Can I see by a show of hands who would 10 prefer option one, getting rid of the machines across 11 the state and operating only the lottery and bingo as 12 the legal forms of gaming? 13 (No hands are raised) 14 COMM. SCHENCK: Nobody. 15 Okay. Option two was have the machines 16 only in the halls with all of the money going either to 17 the charity or to the state. Show of hands? Okay. 18 Virtually everybody. That leaves nothing left. Okay. 19 Well, that's the kind of information I was looking for. 20 Thank you very much. 21 MS. ROGERS: Thank you. 22 Any other comments, members? 23 MR. CIANCARELLI: Yes, madam chair. I'd 24 like to enter into the record today the data disk that 25 I've provided to you and Mr. Sanderson, and it has a few 78 1 items on it. Just to summarize, it's got 108 documents; 2 19 documents considered the proposal, which was what we 3 talked about trying to work up the plan; two logos that 4 Charitable Bingo sent to us; 635 emails; and 93 Google 5 alerts. 6 And Google alerts, just for anyone's 7 benefit that didn't understand what I was doing with 8 that, you can go and put your name -- your last name if 9 it's uncommon or your first and last name as a Google 10 alert, and any time the Internet sees your name, you're 11 going to get a result. It might not be you. It might 12 be somebody else that has your name. So I put in 13 Charitable Bingo, Texas bingo, 8-liners with a number, 14 8-liners with a word, and that's where we were getting a 15 lot of the information about the busts and the 16 prosecutions and also where Alabama, the state of 17 Alabama, was considering legalizing bingo for themselves 18 and would actually be in competition with their 19 Charitable Bingo. So that's where some of the 20 information that they were alluding to. So I'd like to 21 give that to the record. 22 MS. ROGERS: Thank you. 23 Any other comments at this time? 24 (No response) 25 AGENDA ITEM NO. 10 79 1 MS. ROGERS: Okay. We will move to Item 2 No. 10, "Consideration of and possible action on future 3 Bingo Advisory Committee meeting dates and/or items to 4 be considered for future meetings." 5 We do have the item of the work plan that 6 will be on there. Right now, we are scheduled 7 tentatively for September 8th for our next meeting. 8 Is that correct, Phil? 9 MR. SANDERSON: Let me check real quick 10 and see. 11 MR. BOURGOYNE: September 8th? 12 MS. ROGERS: Eighth, yes, sir. 13 MR. SANDERSON: Excuse me. 14 Yes, I do show one for September the 8th. 15 MS. ROGERS: Okay. This is rather soon, 16 but do the members -- what do y'all feel? We have a 17 meeting in September and then also have another meeting 18 to make us have our four for the year, or do you feel it 19 would be sufficient to have one more to finish out the 20 year 2010? Any comments at this time? 21 MR. SANDERSON: You only need one more for 22 the four for the year. 23 MS. ROGERS: We've had three already? 24 MR. SANDERSON: Already had three, yes. 25 MS. ROGERS: They just fly by. 80 1 MR. BOURGOYNE: We only had the work plan? 2 MS. ROGERS: Work plan we know will be on 3 there. 4 MR. SILVER: I don't have a specific item 5 to go on there, but we will have some more stuff come 6 through because Phil was gracious enough to provide me 7 with a list of rules and order of importance. 8 Thank you. 9 MR. SANDERSON: You're welcome. 10 MS. ROGERS: So we will have some rules to 11 discuss. The next Commissioners meeting is August. So 12 then after that, do you have a tentative time for the 13 next Commissioner meeting? 14 MR. SANDERSON: I do not have a tentative 15 plan for the one after that. August 10th is the next 16 tentatively scheduled meeting. 17 MS. ROGERS: And they usually meet every 18 month? 19 MR. SANDERSON: They meet every month, and 20 they usually will look at like the second Thursday of 21 the month, which would be September the 9th. So if 22 there's anything that you have at the September 8th 23 meeting, you have to turn right around and present to 24 them on the 9th. But there, again, that's not a firm 25 date, so -- 81 1 MS. ROGERS: Right. Or we could go into 2 October -- 3 MR. SANDERSON: You can go to October. 4 MS. ROGERS: -- to present to them. 5 MR. SANDERSON: Yes. 6 MS. ROGERS: Because with Thanksgiving -- 7 and always remember, with Thanksgiving and Christmas, 8 things get a little bit mixed up there. So what is -- 9 give me some ideas. 10 MS. BEILUE: Make a proposal to void the 11 September 8th and go to October instead of November. 12 MS. ROGERS: Move to have a meeting in 13 October. 14 MS. BEILUE: And get rid of September. 15 MS. ROGERS: And get rid of September 8th. 16 MS. BEILUE: And November. 17 MS. ROGERS: Is that the consensus of 18 everyone else? 19 (No response) 20 Would that be available to do? 21 MR. SANDERSON: That would be fine, yes. 22 Historically, at this point is when they 23 try to schedule out the meetings for the remainder -- or 24 for the next year. And the last several committees have 25 actually preset like the third Wednesday of a particular 82 1 month; and it's usually, if I'm not mistaken, November, 2 February, May, and August, or something along those 3 lines. 4 Now, remember, there's a legislative 5 session that will be starting in January, so I don't 6 know if you want to have a meeting prior to or at the 7 beginning of the legislative session or wait and have 8 one in February. But I would say at least your next 9 meeting, October -- the third Wednesday in October would 10 probably... 11 MS. ROGERS: That puts us at October 20th. 12 Is that available for everyone? 13 (No response) 14 MS. ROGERS: So at this time, do I hear a 15 motion to cancel the September 8th and move that meeting 16 to October 20th? 17 MS. BEILUE: I make that motion. 18 MS. ROGERS: Markey has a motion. 19 Do I have a second? 20 MR. BOURGOYNE: I'll second. 21 MS. ROGERS: Emile, second. 22 All those in favor? 23 (All those in favor of the motion so 24 responded) 25 MS. ROGERS: Okay. We do have a unanimous 83 1 to move our next meeting to October 20th, tentatively. 2 Is that date available, Mr. Sanderson? 3 MR. SANDERSON: I show it is, yes. 4 MS. ROGERS: Okay, thank you. 5 So at this time, members, would we like to 6 go ahead and tentatively schedule the meetings for next 7 year also? The legislation will start in January -- 8 legislators? Correct? 9 MR. SANDERSON: That is correct. 10 MS. ROGERS: Middle of January, about? 11 MR. SANDERSON: Usually around the 14th, 12 11th, 14th, somewhere in there. 13 MS. ROGERS: Okay. 14 MR. SANDERSON: Well, let's see. 15 MS. ROGERS: Third Wednesday in February 16 would be February 16th, which will be just about five 17 weeks after they go into session. Is that good for 18 everyone, tentatively for February 16th? 19 (No response) 20 Move down to May, third Wednesday would be 21 May 18th. At this time, is that good for everyone? 22 (No response) 23 And then move to August, that would be 24 August 17th. And then November -- 25 MR. SANDERSON: Well, that's it. You just 84 1 stop there. Just do the next four. 2 MS. ROGERS: Take a vote on that one. 3 Okay. So we will -- do I hear a motion for next year's 4 meetings to be February 16th, May 18th, and August 17th? 5 MS. BEILUE: I thought we were supposed to 6 have four? 7 MR. WEEKLEY: Well, we have one in 8 October. 9 MS. ROGERS: For a fiscal year. 10 MS. BEILUE: Oh, okay. Thank you. 11 I make that motion. 12 MS. ROGERS: Markey, I have a motion from 13 Markey. Do I have a second? 14 MR. WILLIAMS: Second. 15 MS. ROGERS: From Joe. All those in 16 favor? 17 (All those in favor of the motion so 18 responded) 19 MS. ROGERS: We have a unanimous vote that 20 our meetings will be tentatively scheduled. 21 AGENDA ITEM NO. 11 22 MS. ROGERS: Thank you to everyone who 23 attended the meeting today. I appreciate it, ladies and 24 gentlemen. It is now 11:50, and this meeting is 25 adjourned. 85 1 MR. BOURGOYNE: Did we make a motion to 2 adjourn? 3 (Simultaneous discussion) 4 MS. ROGERS: Motion to adjourn? 5 MR. BOURGOYNE: I'll make that motion. 6 MR. CIANCARELLI: Second. 7 MS. ROGERS: Emile makes that motion. 8 Second by Francis. All those in favor? 9 (All those in favor of the motion so 10 responded) 11 MS. ROGERS: Unanimously voted. 12 (Proceedings concluded at 11:47 a.m.) 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 86 1 C E R T I F I C A T E 2 STATE OF TEXAS ) 3 COUNTY OF TRAVIS ) 4 I, Lorrie A. Schnoor, Certified Shorthand 5 Reporter in and for the State of Texas, Registered Merit 6 Reporter and Texas Certified Realtime Reporter, do 7 hereby certify that the above-mentioned matter occurred 8 as hereinbefore set out. 9 I FURTHER CERTIFY THAT the proceedings of such 10 were reported by me or under my supervision, later 11 reduced to typewritten form under my supervision and 12 control and that the foregoing pages are a full, true, 13 and correct transcription of the original notes. 14 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my 15 hand and seal this 6th day of August 2010. 16 17 _______________________________ LORRIE A. SCHNOOR, RMR, TCRR 18 Certified Shorthand Reporter CSR No. 4642 - Expires 12/31/11 19 Firm Registration No. 276 20 Kennedy Reporting Service, Inc. Cambridge Tower 21 1801 Lavaca Street, Suite 115 Austin, Texas 78701 22 512.474.2233 23 24 25